A Few Questions For My First Figure

[Davaris]

Hi Everyone,

I'm eager to start painting my first figure using oils, but I don't have any primer yet. So I was wondering can anyone recommend a couple of good primer brands for use with oils? From what I understand there is a grey, white, black and clear primer method I read about here:

http://www.coolminiornot.com/article/aid/127

So now I don't know which primer method to use. Can anyone recommend a good method and a brand of primer to buy?

I also read that people spray primers on. I was wondering can you paint them on, as I don't have a good place to spray.



These are the oils I have from Winsor and Newton:

burnt umber, zinc white, mars black, titanium white, davys's gray,
winsor yellow, winsor lemon, permanent rose, cadmium red, french ultra marine, winsor blue green shade.

I just realized I don't have any metallic oils, like gold or silver. Are these necessary, or is there something else I should use other than oils?


I also have a question for the Aussies out there. Can you tell me what you use for stripping the paint from metal and plastic figures? I've seen some recommendations on the net, but I haven't heard of any of the products mentioned, so I don't think they'd sell them here.


I also read that you have to cover your completed figure with a special clear coat or varnish. In the case of oils it is supposed to reduce the shine of the oils and protect them. I was wondering can any one recommend a couple of good brands?

My last question is about mixing oils. When you mix the oils to get a colour you like , are you able to keep the mix by putting it in a plastic container, or will it set hard?


I think thats all.

 

[Jamie Stokes]

Davaris,
New chum Jamie here.

have built tanks & vehicles before, anddidnt always have the nifty stuff others have had.

Spray primer often comes in a spray can. Spray outside in a back yard, car port (no cars nearby) or local space on a calm day. mounting the figure on a block of wood or similar will help handling. do this before priming.

types of Primer? Id recomend a neural grey, say a tamiya flat grey from the local hobby shop (LHS) or mail order if you are in a remote area like me.
As for brushing on a primer, not recomended personally. too easy to lose details, fill in creases etc. spraying lays down an extremely thin coat, and leaves details alone. Hint (learned the hard way) several thin, light coats is superior to one thick coat.

Others can comment on the oils; what brushes do you have? And dont worry about metallics just yet; your head might explode with the learning curve of oils & metallics.

Stripping of figures; Oven cleaner. the stuff in the red can. check the thread at the top regarding beginners basics. Makes your eyes water, but I put a figure in a tupperware type container, give it a good coating, seal the lid, walk away and do something else for a few hours.

When mixing oils, keep notes on what ratios of what you mix. oils take a long time to dry, but will dry out. something I only earned recently is that its best to add small amounts of dark colours to light ones, rather then lots and lots of light to tryand lighten a dark colour.

As for coating a figure with a varnish after oil paints, scratch head icon here. Others can answer this.

What is the figure or figures? Modern, roman, western?

Cheers
Jamie

 

[Davaris]

Hi Jamie,
Thanks for helping.

Others can comment on the oils; what brushes do you have? And dont worry about metallics just yet; your head might explode with the learning curve of oils & metallics.

So what do should I do about armour and the like? Should I paint it grey or should I put some sort of a wash on it and then polish it? BTW I'm assuming a wash is a heavily diluted dark oil.

Others can comment on the oils; what brushes do you have? And dont worry about metallics just yet; your head might explode with the learning curve of oils & metallics.

I went for the Escoda range as the others were a bit too expensive. I got 2X size 1's, 2X size 2's and 2X size 0 Kolinski rounds. I threw out the invoice so I can't give better descriptions unfortunately.

I think I'll need a couple of old brushes for mixing though. I also got the Master's Brush Cleaner and Preserver, but I heard there's a liquid one, that does a better job of cleaning so I'll get that eventually.

What is the figure or figures? Modern, roman, western?

My first efforts will be some fantasy minis from the Mega Minis range. I like them because they do fighting figures as well as figures that are going about their daily lives.

 

[tonydawe]

Hi Davaris,

Firstly, welcome to the Planet mate. Great to see another Aussie on board. You are among friends here.

There are plenty of great figure modellers ready and willing to share their experience and expertise with you, and you will definitely find inspiration in the work of so many talented painters and sculptors (I know I do).

I don't use oils very much now (I switched to Vallejo acrylics about 3 years ago ) however the basic rule of thumb with oils (and most other products we use for modelling) is to buy the best quality products you can afford. Windsor & Newton are widely regarded as one of the best manufacturers of oil paints and brushes, and their Series 7 Brushes are the "duck's nuts".

The secret to painting in all mediums is to thin your paint and build up your colours through a series of thin applications, rather than try to slather it on and cover the surface in one application.

For primers, you can't go past Tamiya's range of spray can primers. They come in white, light grey and grey and as Jamie said, they produce a very thin, fine coat of primer that won't obscure the fine details on the surface.

Be careful to wash your figure in warm, soapy water and allow it to dry thoroughly before you prime. This removes any oils and grease left on the figure by your fingers, which can leave visible finger prints on the surface after priming.

Once again, better to make several applications of very thin coats than try to cover the surface with one thick coat. I spray mine out in the back yard and hold the can about 30-40 cms from the model. I then turn the model as I spray to ensue a smooth, even covering.

For metallics, I would suggest you purchase Gold, Brass, Steel and Gun Metal colours. I recommend you try acrylics because they are easy to use, wash out in water and can be mixed with oils.

These four metallic colours should do the job for most metal surfaces. To create highlights and shadows, just add black/ brown (shadows) or white (highlights) to your metal colours.

Enamels, like oils, tend to build up into clumps unless you keep them thin, so don't be tempted to slap it on. Patience is the key . Build up your metal colours in thin layers and you will be rewarded by a clean, smooth finish that shines realistically.

Stripping paint off old figures is relatively easy. I use Mr Muscle oven cleaner spray. I spray the oven cleaner on outside and then put my figure in the oven (turned off of course) and leave it for at least 24 hours.

Afterwards you should be able to wash off most of the paint in the kitchen sink. Residual bits of paint can usually be removed with a stiff wire brush or tooth brush. Any remaining pieces can then be scraped off carefully with the flat edge of your hobby knife.

I hope this helps a bit.

Please feel free to show some photos of your models, and keep asking questions. There are no Dumb Arsed Questions on pF!!

Cheers

 

[Sambaman]

All good advice! One small caveate to Tony's advice would be that with oils, I recomend you DON'T thin them before applying. I use them straight from the tube. I use Testors brush cleaner to clean up with.

Your oils are going on in very thin, often transparent layers as with other mediums, but thinning is probably not recomended. Some people will place a clump of their color on a piece of card stock, uncoated business card for example, to "leach" out some of the oils carier (the card stock pulls out just the carrier onto the surrounding paper). This helps stiffen up the paint a tad, and helps keep the paint "matte" when dry. (this is a whole other issue with oils, getting a matte finish! I use DullCoat, but others have MANY sorted ways to get them to dull down. Take a look around for more on this here on the Planet).

With oils, if you take some time to look around, you'll notice people mentioning "undercoating". What this consists of is painting overall medium-tone colors on your piece before starting your oils applications. What this does is help with the oils coverage, as they tend to be quite translucent. This means a nice even coverage of acrylics (I use Vallejo) as a base before you push any oil piant around on your figie.

I prime with white acrylic sprayed through an airbrush first. I understand this is of no help for you as you state you have no where to spray, but the recomendation of Tamiya spray primers may be your best choice. they are very nice paints and simply going outside on a warm nice day will go a long way to help you get a nice base to start with.

Your paints and brushes are a good start. I would recomend adding Raw Umber, and Sap green to your palette if you want. Titanium White is your best bet for sure. It is more opaque than the Zinc and should prove less frustrating for starters. I don't use anything but Tit. White.

Good luck, welcome aboard! Practice makes perfect, don't be afraid to make mistakes and keep trudging forward. I would get out some practice bits to start with and see what you have in ya! Let us know if you have nay other questions!

Jay H.
OKc

 

[Davaris]

Thanks your help everyone.

I went to Hobby Co today and all they had was Tamiya acrylics (Gold, Titanium Sliver and Gun Metal). Unfortunately they had run out of Copper and didn't have Brass in the range at all, so I guess I'll have to get that another time.

I also borrowed an unpainted Uruk-Hai figure from my nephew, so for my first effort I'm going to try and copy the pictures from the Games Workshop site. Hopefully I'll have something to show soon.

 

[tonydawe]

Hi Davaris,

Well done mate.

If you need a brass colour, you can always try adding a touch of brown to your gold colour.

When its mixed together it should give you a brassy colour. You'll need to experiment a little to get the mix right.

Where do you live? Are there any figure modelling clubs near you?

Cheers

 

[theseeker]

Davaris,

If you intend to paint with oils, I would highly recommend Danilo Cartacci's book, painting miniatures. It is a must have. I would also suggest that you buy the best brushes and paints that you can afford as others have suggested. The series 7 brushes are expensive but well worth the investment. However you need to select these in person. Do not buy them from the internet if you can purchase them in person. Lastly, buy some inexpensive figures to practice upon. It is very disappointing to buy a high value kit only to screw it up.
There are many cheap kits available kits on e-bay on which to practice.
My advice comes from an immense amount of feedback from the great people at PF. Just my 2 cents!

Rocky

 

[busso_boy]

I find the games workshop range of metallic paints fantastic.

and welcome to PF Davaris, can never be too many Aussies on PF

 

[Davaris]

Where do you live? Are there any figure modelling clubs near you?

I live in South Western Sydney, so there should be a couple around the traps.

If you intend to paint with oils, I would highly recommend Danilo Cartacci's book, painting miniatures. It is a must have. I would also suggest that you buy the best brushes and paints that you can afford as others have suggested. The series 7 brushes are expensive but well worth the investment. However you need to select these in person. Do not buy them from the internet if you can purchase them in person. Lastly, buy some inexpensive figures to practice upon. It is very disappointing to buy a high value kit only to screw it up.
There are many cheap kits available kits on e-bay on which to practice.
My advice comes from an immense amount of feedback from the great people at PF. Just my 2 cents!

Thanks Rocky.

and welcome to PF Davaris, can never be too many Aussies on PF

Thanks I'm glad to be here busso_boy.


Progress Report:
The primer they sold me wasn't what I asked for. I asked for a light grey and they seem to have given me a clear one. Or at least it goes on clear so I can't tell if it has properly covered the figure.

Anyway I moved on to painting it (after a wait of an hour) with lamp black oil and it didn't go on very well at all. It went on very thin and just settled into the crevices. So I'm wondering if there wasn't enough primer on it and the oils had nothing to stick to. Or perhaps I shouldn't have wet my brush with water before I dipped it in the oil?




I also read that it takes 5 days for oils to dry outside of a dry box (which reduces the dry time to 24 hours). Does that mean it will be too wet to paint another coat of the same colour before the 5 days are up? In the mean time I had better make a dry box.

 

[busso_boy]

I live in South Western Sydney, so there should be a couple around the traps.

Used to be, but no specific figure club in Sydney anymore. might be a few war hammer clubs about

I'm in Liverpool, and your more than welcome to pop over if you want talk figures or look over kits etc

 

[Davaris]

Used to be, but no specific figure club in Sydney anymore. might be a few war hammer clubs about

I think people just paint at their war gamer and D&D clubs don't they?

I'm in Liverpool, and your more than welcome to pop over if you want talk figures or look over kits etcc

Thanks busso_boy. We'll see how it goes. At the moment I'm getting frustrated due to my complete lack of patience (see below). If the acrylics work better for me I might be able to get into this hobby.


Update:
I painted the cape red and that went well. Then I started working on the armor with gold acrylic (I mixed in a little on the umber to darken the gold). The painting went okay, until the acrylic component dried out and I mucked up the helmet. Then I moved to another area and part of my brush touched the red paint and I messed it up. After that I decided to cut my losses and put Mr Muscle on it.


So now I'm thinking of trying some acrylic paints, because I don't have the patience for the slow dry time of oils. I read that Vallejo acrylics have a good rep. So I was wondering does anyone know of any stores that sell them in Sydney? Also where is the best place to order them online?



EDIT:

I just found this. The prices look good and it is in Australia so the postage is $5 AU for 10 bottles. If there is better out there let me know.

http://stores.ebay.com.au/Red-Branch_Paints-Vallejo_W0QQcolZ4QQdirZ1QQfsubZ13QQftidZ2QQtZkm

 

[busso_boy]

i've bought a few vellejo paints from the toy soldier in the city, but i work with citadel paints these days as i find them great to use and a lot easier to get. i've thought about bringing in the andrea paint range but i dont think i could justify the expense on something i would have trouble selling outside hobby shows of which i only attend about 6 a year.

when i finally get my "powerball" and can afford to give up my real job and become australia's biggest figure retailer i'll stock up on them and attend all the hobby shows in the country - and when not at shows i'll be travelling the world to stock up on any figure brand i can get my hands on

oh to dream

 

[Jamie Stokes]

Acrylics and stuff

Hi Davaris,
welcome to a new world of patience.......
Acrylics; will dry to the touch in about 20 minutes, maybe a bit quicker of a thin coat,lots quicker if you work outside on 40 degree day;think paint drying on the brush.

Lets back up.....
Primer coat. Any spray can give a darn good shake to mix contents.sometimes I turn the can upside down and shake for at least 90 odd seconds. Well mixed then.

first coat of black; looks like the paint was a bit thin, or hadnt been mixed when out of the tube. easy paint chem lesson; paint is a mixture of coloured solids, and a liquid (or other medium) to allow them to flow. Oils, acrylics etc need a good stir. a good practice is to check that any paint is a nice mix of opaque colours and flow. for acrylics, should look like milk. oils are a different animal.

Vallejo are excellent, Citadel are just as good; colour names are a bt odd (Elf snot yellow, orc toe-fungus green) but the colour is visible.

have you planned in what order you want to paint your figures, and in what colours?

Ie hard to get at interiors first, (chest, then groin) then back, legs, arms,head, etc.
ITs always easier to cover a light colour with a dark one then a dark with a light colour.....

Metallics; have a seperate brush, as the fine particles can (and will) contaminate all other colours that follow in your brush. ask me some other day about my 1/35 US tank commander, with a slightly sparkly olive drab uniform.....

If you grab one of the warhammer product adverts, usually disguised as a magazine, they often have some painting guides in there. the shops may even have a back issue or two related to your specific figure.

HAving said that, it is your figure, and if you want to paint a orc in rohan colours, or a easterling in elf colours, go for it. your figure, your paint. someone elses criticiszes you, ask to see their figures......
(Dont pick that fight on pf; we are all friends here )

To sum up;

any paint; transfer a small dob of it to a palette (a white plastic picnic plate is fine) and make sure it is mixed properly.

Seperate brushes for metallics

less is more, regarding thinners,coverage, etc.

imperfect practice gets us closer to ever better results.

Shake any and all spray cans good and hard.

acrylics dilute with water; keep some nearby and dip the brush, tap off the excess, keeps things fresh.

When a figure is goofed, pack up,clean up,walk away, sulk, get a good nights sleep, come back and learn.

if worse gets to worse, reach for mr muscle.

Good to see that you are keeping pix of your efforts. in a relatively short space of time, you will easily see some improvement.

There are no mistakes, only learning oppurtunities

If there are no figure clubs, search out a modelling club as a plan b. If they arent as helpful as the foks here of pF, find another club.

keep it up. good skills and results come with practice, practice, practice.

cheers
Jamie

 

[Einion]

Davaris, re. spray primers it's a good idea, in addition to really shaking them well, to warm the can in hand-hot water before you spray. The colder the weather the more important this is.

Acrylics; will dry to the touch in about 20 minutes, maybe a bit quicker of a thin coat...

Do your paints really take that long to dry as a rule? Which brand?

Einion

 

[Jamie Stokes]

Einion,
probably not that long really for straight up vallejo.

I add extender so I can try and dosome wet on wet blending.

Plus the fact that 20 minutes is "a number that sounds right", so there is an even chance I am real wrong. But,I am often wrong,which leaves room for better next time.
(Looks red faced and sheepish)
It is actually quite quicker. never timed it.

Cheers
Jamie

 

[Davaris]

Thanks for your help everyone.

BTW I've just ordered some acrylics direct from Vallejo paints (because they were cheaper than the e-bay link). So I'll post again as soon I've done something after they arrive.