A scale mail in larger scales

[Piotr Czyz]

HI all,

I’m currently working on my next bust (1/9 scale) which is going to present a medieval crusader. But… (there is always but ) I’ve got a really big problem with making a good-looking scale mail. Of course I know a method with ‘c-tool’ but it doesn’t give sufficient results with 1/9 scale (at least in my humble opinion).

So I’ve got for you two kind requests:

1. Please post here different scalemail’s photos of your figures (could be a great source of the reference for the future). Sometimes one photo is better that a thousand words.

I found myself an interested looking scale mail in one of current Artur’s Sekula work ( http://www.planetfigure.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=9387 - Warriors 1:9 Northumbrian – interesting – but the picture isn’t perfect… in terms of scale’s mail presenting)

2. If you know the way how to make a good-looking mail-scale in 1/9 scale, please post it in this thread.

Thank you,

Piotr

P.S. Nice page with pictures: http://members.tripod.com/knotwork/weaves.html

 

[nagashino]

Hi Piotr

The late Derek Holmes, who sculpted quite a bit for VLS and others, used to make the mail for his busts and larger scale figures out of fine copper wire, wound round a suitable diameter rod, and then removed, stretched very slightly and then linked to a similar length by winding one into the other (like joining two coiled springs). When enough lengths were so joined, he would roll them flat and glue them to the surface of the bust.

This was obviously a very time consuming and had the potential to drive one crazy :lol: , but the finished job was very effective.

Worth a thought?

Cheers

Phil

 

[Piotr Czyz]

Hi Phil, thank you very much for fast answer - I will give a try and show the results here. Meanwhile I found a nice topic here: http://www.planetfigure.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=3912 - sure I found it also earlier, but I want to post is just to summaryze everything we should know about sculpting chain mails.

Regards,
Piotr

Edit:
---------------------
I found also Craig's Whitaker from Pittsuburgh way of doing it:

http://www.planetfigure.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=6711
"It's an OOP piece from Ft. Duquesne of William Wallace. It's a big 1/5th scale piece in resin. I redid the chain mail by grinding it out, packing the void with epoxy putty and laying in dozens of strands of thin necklace chain from a craft store."

----------------------
And a fine looking mail here Bust 1/4 scale by Frank Emmler
http://www.planetfigure.com/forums/index.p...9&hl=chain+mail

But still it's a 1/5 and 1/4 BUT NOT 1/9 scale

 

[JohnLea]

Phil,

On one of his visits Derek brought a 3x3 patch of mail he did. If I recall correctly it was 1:16 but that doesn't seem right. It was put together with tweezers following the 1:1 stuff. I don't know if it ever made it to a Verlinden master.

A talent lost.

 

[minimaker]

I work in 30mm and to me it's kidn of hard to imagine what chain should look like in 1/9 scale. Do you know if there is an example of 1/9 chainmail somewhere in the net?

The tool I mentioned in the first thread is a tube cut to a C with a thinner rod in the middel. So the "ring" is pressed between center rod and tube. Perhaps you could use a tool like that?

As to making chainmail, I've done that in jewellery class and also for fine chainmail the technique is like for big mail as shown on this page:

http://www.chainmailbasket.com/constructio...ing_maille.html

Bye, ming-Hua

 

[renarts]

Piotr,
Lurk some of the consignment or vintage clothing shops. In the 30's and 40's it was fashionable for women to carry clutch purses made from chainmail.
These come in various diameters and I'm sure you will find a purse with the right size of chailmail for your scale of bust. A pair of wire cutters or tin snips will yield sheets that can be cut to shape to fit your application.

Other sources are butchers sleeves or gloves. Fencing safety aprons for throat covering use a fine chainmail mesh.

In the 30's they actually had a mchine that made large sheets of chainmail. the idea was to hang it inside tanks to stop shrapnel. It was abandoned because it added to much weight, was difficult to install and often made more shrapnel.

 

[neill]

Originally posted by Piotr Czyz@Mar 30 2006, 06:56 AM
HI all,

I’m currently working on my next bust (1/9 scale) which is going to present a medieval crusader. But… (there is always but ) I’ve got a really big problem with making a good-looking scale mail.

Even in 1/9+ and large I find the C-tool method works well.

Here is my tool and two commissioned pieces for your review.

John

 

[nagashino]

A talent lost.

Amen to that, John

Phil

 

[Einion]

Hi Piotr, what is the subject? The quality of the mail might go some way towards helping you decide how fine you want the final result to look and hence which method is most suitable.

If you want to produce a historically-accurate result I would suggest you work from images of historical mail only, no reproductions unless you know that the wire gauge and the ring size is appropriate; for speed/cost reasons most reproduction mail is quite a bit cruder than the real thing.

For ease, while still giving a very realistic result, I think the best method may be to use cut rings of wire set into a bed of wet putty. You can make the rings close to scale size and go some way toward giving the appearance that they are actually linked.

Originally posted by nagashino@Mar 30 2006, 01:39 PM
The late Derek Holmes, who sculpted quite a bit for VLS and others, used to make the mail for his busts and larger scale figures out of fine copper wire, wound round a suitable diameter rod, and then removed, stretched very slightly and then linked to a similar length by winding one into the other (like joining two coiled springs). When enough lengths were so joined, he would roll them flat and glue them to the surface of the bust.

He also made actual mail at least once (from solder?) now that takes patience! Although the links were very overscale of course the final effect was great.

Einion

 

[Piotr Czyz]

Hi all, thank you for all your helpful post!

As I said I'm not happy with the results of using C-tool in larger scales. IHMO in smaller scales it looks OK, but not in 1/9. So I'm looking for another way of doing it.

To be honest I don't want to reproduce a historically-accurate result. I rather prefer to make a nice-looking scale-mail which could be a real pleasure to paint and which give us just an impression of real thing.

Yesterday I have tried to make a chain mail in a traditional way (I mean small rings, cutters) - but... It really made me mad - my hands are too shaky to do that (later I will post the pictures showing what I was able to do).

Today I'm going to try find a suitable chain mail in right scale (in jewelry shops or craft shop) - I will let you know what I discovered there.

Again, thank you very much for sharing your knowledge.

Regards,
Piotr

 

[TorMag]

Have you looked at Anders Heintz way of doing mail with wire

http://www.timelinesforum.com/forums/showt...71&page=1&pp=10

Look on page 3 of this SBS. He just makes the "springs" then flattens them out.

Also, for my piece below, I used the "C" tool and this is at 1/5th scale.

Tor

 

[TorMag]

Piotr:

I was just relooking at your Norman, what is wrong with the way you did the chain mail there? Looks fantastic. BTW, tried your rivit method last night and was very happy with it.

Thanks

Tor