starki
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I just done next Antibust. This one fit perfectly to Young Miniatures YM1822 MG42 gunner Ardennes 1944. Best regards from Poland, Pawel (www.starkiminiatures.com)
Another antibust
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Gra30
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I love the idea, but I am a little cautious of pieces being sold when they are specifically aimed at a sculptors or manufacturers work.
Surely there must be some agreement made between sculptor, owner of the master, if it is to be sold as such.
I am sure Tamiya have an agreement with Aber etc
It just sort of hits a nerve, no offence meant just knowing how I will feel if you bring a set of legs out and name them specifically for my Imperial Guard
Surely there must be some agreement made between sculptor, owner of the master, if it is to be sold as such.
I am sure Tamiya have an agreement with Aber etc
It just sort of hits a nerve, no offence meant just knowing how I will feel if you bring a set of legs out and name them specifically for my Imperial Guard
Hi Pawel,
I agree with Gra30 a good idea but it does need clarification from the company whose bust it is aimed at in particular as to wether they are happy .
It is a shame they cannot be used on others as well though but then that defeats your object I suppose in releasing these .
Be interested in your comments on this one
Nap
I agree with Gra30 a good idea but it does need clarification from the company whose bust it is aimed at in particular as to wether they are happy .
It is a shame they cannot be used on others as well though but then that defeats your object I suppose in releasing these .
Be interested in your comments on this one
Nap
Gra30
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If sold as general then probably no problem ( and as said by Nap this does defeat what you are aiming for)
If sold very much like the garage kits it would probably go undetected but you are ultimately trading on a manufacturers name. The uninitiated would also assume also made by said manufacturer.
This is not me being a grump, just hoping and advising to be careful as to how you advertise
Please also understand that manufacturers often follow up and pay the initial sculptors of the piece for such work
If sold very much like the garage kits it would probably go undetected but you are ultimately trading on a manufacturers name. The uninitiated would also assume also made by said manufacturer.
This is not me being a grump, just hoping and advising to be careful as to how you advertise
Please also understand that manufacturers often follow up and pay the initial sculptors of the piece for such work
Ferris
A Fixture
I like the idea of the 'antibust' and doubt whether it is morally or legally necessary to 'align' with the bust's manufacturor. I see this as comparable to someone making and selling (non-Apple) covers for iPads, or PC accessories that interface with for example Windows. The antibust is just another aftermarket product, like there are already so many in the AFV modelling scene. Most of the latter have no ties at all with the base model manufacturor.
Besides, the antibust in no way harms the bust manufacturor. On the contrary, it will stimulate further sales. I also don't think it infringes any intellectual property. It just creates more options for the modeller.
A lot of words to say Nice release Pawel! It will be interesting to see the first one painted up.
Adrian
Besides, the antibust in no way harms the bust manufacturor. On the contrary, it will stimulate further sales. I also don't think it infringes any intellectual property. It just creates more options for the modeller.
A lot of words to say Nice release Pawel! It will be interesting to see the first one painted up.
Adrian
I agree, I don't think this antibust has to be confirmed in any way by the company which originally released the bust. Starki is producing the "upgrade" or "conversion" to the particular bust... a quite usual concept in the scale modeling world with numerous companies offering aftermarket upgrades to AFV models, airplanes, etc. In fact, as Adrian stated, this is a win-win to both Young and Starki...
Mario
Mario
Gra30
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Well I disagree, if sold as a pair of legs fine, but when sold using a manufacturers name without permission, where I I can probably assume has happened this is wrong. I will give you an example, I have considered revisiting a bust as a full figure and going back and paying the sculptor, now if this came out as a direct link and sold using my company piece as marketing I would be right p*****d off and would then make my commission obsolete.
These are not being sold a generic legs, not even being sold as legs that we know match a manufacturer, they are being advertised knowing full well the target audience and using the manufacturers names in the advertising. If that good then create a new bust instead of riding of other companies hard work
Afv upgrades are generic, but I am sure if you use the name dragon or tamiya in the marketing or advertising you need permission,they are also to enhance the limitations of injection moulding.
And yes, the anti bust can do harm as said above if the manufacturer is already considering a full piece, especially if he wants to keep the purity of the original sculptor.
This is plagiarism in a way as it corresponds directly to the sculptors vision, even the coat extensions are included, but I am sure will be funded well
These are not being sold a generic legs, not even being sold as legs that we know match a manufacturer, they are being advertised knowing full well the target audience and using the manufacturers names in the advertising. If that good then create a new bust instead of riding of other companies hard work
Afv upgrades are generic, but I am sure if you use the name dragon or tamiya in the marketing or advertising you need permission,they are also to enhance the limitations of injection moulding.
And yes, the anti bust can do harm as said above if the manufacturer is already considering a full piece, especially if he wants to keep the purity of the original sculptor.
This is plagiarism in a way as it corresponds directly to the sculptors vision, even the coat extensions are included, but I am sure will be funded well
AFV upgrades are not generic, and most quote for which model (Tamiya, Dragon, etc) they are produced for. I'm not sure if there is any agreement between the manufacturers though... I don't think so, but I might be wrong.
Anyway, I don't think these antibusts are plagiarism. They do not use any part of the bust itself, instead "upgrading" it with legs. I'm not sure your argument of "I have considered to make this myself" is valid. I have been in pharma business and this argument would never hold in court if you haven't somehow protected your original structure and possible modifications or changes to it from other parties.
I'm not trying to raise a fight here, just offering my opinion.
Mario
Anyway, I don't think these antibusts are plagiarism. They do not use any part of the bust itself, instead "upgrading" it with legs. I'm not sure your argument of "I have considered to make this myself" is valid. I have been in pharma business and this argument would never hold in court if you haven't somehow protected your original structure and possible modifications or changes to it from other parties.
I'm not trying to raise a fight here, just offering my opinion.
Mario
Sturm Grenadier
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I agree with Adrian on this one. I look at Starki Miniatures as giving the figure modelers another option to completing the piece. Starki has combined his work with Alexandros, and Young so far, and states this on his site. I haven't heard any complaints from these manufacturers as of yet. Sometimes, I wish bust manufacturers would just produce a full figure every now and then, with the bust to follow later. Sure, it is always a matter of cost, but by the time you buy the bust, and the anti-bust, cost becomes irrelevant. How many times have we seen the comments; "I wish this was a full figure" about busts. Well, now one is being provided as an option. Another way to look at this, if you don't like the bust in the first place, then these anti-busts, shouldn't matter to you anyway. Maybe something like this anti-bust, will make figure/bust manufacturers, give us some more options in the kits they market. As an example: the above Young bust would have also looked great holding a Panzerfaust, besides the MG42, but that option wasn't included with the kit. I like the options provided with these new anti-busts, and like the concept. Regards, SG
Ferris
A Fixture
Interesting that this is a discussion item at all. I am truly surprised about the comment of plagiarism. In my opinion, this doesn't hold at all, as nothing of the bust is copied. There is also no rule against using commercially acquired component A, in combination with commercially acquired part B, unless specifically prohibited. Modellers in general do such things all the time, and many upgrade sets are specifically targeted for specific models, without any specific deal.
I can imagine the sculptor, or owner of the bust's moulds, can feel strange artiscally about someone adding to their sculpt. But that is an artistic argument, and not a legal or commercial one. Commercially, the antibust should be embraced, as it will stimulate bust sales, I would expect. The argument 'I could have done that' only carries legal meaning if there was some form of intellectual property protection in place to cover that idea. Besides, it is always possible to create a competing antibust (better sculpted, boots instead of shoes, whatever...), so no opportunities are stolen either.
I hope I haven't created a fight with you Gra30; that is not my intention. I think I have an idea which nerve the antibust hits with you, but as a consumer in the figure market, I like this innovation, because it creates new opportunities.
Maybe it will chear you up when I say that I may become a customer of your busts now, whereas I generally do not buy them In combo with the antibust I may. New opportunities for everyone!
Regards,
Adrian
I can imagine the sculptor, or owner of the bust's moulds, can feel strange artiscally about someone adding to their sculpt. But that is an artistic argument, and not a legal or commercial one. Commercially, the antibust should be embraced, as it will stimulate bust sales, I would expect. The argument 'I could have done that' only carries legal meaning if there was some form of intellectual property protection in place to cover that idea. Besides, it is always possible to create a competing antibust (better sculpted, boots instead of shoes, whatever...), so no opportunities are stolen either.
I hope I haven't created a fight with you Gra30; that is not my intention. I think I have an idea which nerve the antibust hits with you, but as a consumer in the figure market, I like this innovation, because it creates new opportunities.
Maybe it will chear you up when I say that I may become a customer of your busts now, whereas I generally do not buy them In combo with the antibust I may. New opportunities for everyone!
Regards,
Adrian
The figure extension (legs) may just boost the sale of the upper part. I am not interested in bust. I rather want the full figure, and don't mind paying more. If the upper part is worth it...
I am pretty sure there are no agreement between aftermarket producers and the likes of Tamiya, Dragon, etc. Certainly not when the aftermarket goodie is meant to fix errors on the original kit. Anyway the big guys would welcome the attention of the little guys as a sign that the original kit is worthy. The ugly kits don't receive attention from the aftermarket guys.
If I was a bust producer, I would welcome the legs as a positive sign of recognition. Where is the harm? Where is the infringement on intellectual property?
Cheers,
Patrick
I am pretty sure there are no agreement between aftermarket producers and the likes of Tamiya, Dragon, etc. Certainly not when the aftermarket goodie is meant to fix errors on the original kit. Anyway the big guys would welcome the attention of the little guys as a sign that the original kit is worthy. The ugly kits don't receive attention from the aftermarket guys.
If I was a bust producer, I would welcome the legs as a positive sign of recognition. Where is the harm? Where is the infringement on intellectual property?
Cheers,
Patrick
Martin64
A Fixture
I feel that Starki provides just the missing lower part for half-figure-busts which invite to do this by the way they are designed. If the producer of the half-figure plans to release an own full figure he still can compete in many ways with Starki. At the moment Starki`s business supports the producers of the half figures. To use his product you always need the upper part for completion - so on behalf of the "original-bust-producer" you never loose customers but win some more.
Having seen his offer I felt tempted to purchase one of these half figures for the first time. Keep these legs coming Starki!
Cheers, Martin
Having seen his offer I felt tempted to purchase one of these half figures for the first time. Keep these legs coming Starki!
Cheers, Martin
carl reid
A Fixture
This is a very grey area. I agree Starki has the freedom to produce a product in a free market. but to use the companies name, in this case (Young Miniatures) to sell a his own product is ethically questionably without permission.
If it is endorsed by Young, then that's fine!
I also agree with Graham regarding the a generic vehicle, of which hundreds are produced on an engineered basis. But this is organic, it has an artistic interpretation, a fingerprint if you like! I'm pretty sure if you added additional half an hours footage to "Toy Story" Disney would haul your ass into court quicker than you could hit the delete button.
But like I said previously, it is a free market and I guess with that comes this. But I can't help feeling that it piggy backing a niche of niche of a niche. How big that market is, only time will tell.
Just my pennies worth, for what its worth!
Carl
If it is endorsed by Young, then that's fine!
I also agree with Graham regarding the a generic vehicle, of which hundreds are produced on an engineered basis. But this is organic, it has an artistic interpretation, a fingerprint if you like! I'm pretty sure if you added additional half an hours footage to "Toy Story" Disney would haul your ass into court quicker than you could hit the delete button.
But like I said previously, it is a free market and I guess with that comes this. But I can't help feeling that it piggy backing a niche of niche of a niche. How big that market is, only time will tell.
Just my pennies worth, for what its worth!
Carl
Uruk-Hai
PlanetFigure Supporter
I cant see no problem in this.
I actually wonder why this isnt done on a larger scale, pardon the pun.
But lets say you make a convertion for a Pegaso 75mm figure that constitutes of a new left arm, a new head and some extra equipment.
Generic products such as weapons, heads and hands are already used for this, so I dont see the problem for a convertion aimed at a specific figure.
Cheers
Janne Nilsson
I actually wonder why this isnt done on a larger scale, pardon the pun.
But lets say you make a convertion for a Pegaso 75mm figure that constitutes of a new left arm, a new head and some extra equipment.
Generic products such as weapons, heads and hands are already used for this, so I dont see the problem for a convertion aimed at a specific figure.
Cheers
Janne Nilsson
Ferris
A Fixture
We should not forget that creating legs for one specific bust is like Carl Reid said a niche of a niche. I wonder if making antibusts is commercially viable, as there will always be far fewer sales of the antibust, than of the original bust. My guess is that this only makes sense if you can offer a LOT of antibusts for many many different busts. In fact, making antibusts probably makes most sense (commercially) to the bust's manufacturor itself.
I'm curious if antibusts will become part of the mainstream of products. As much as I like the concept, I am sceptical, as commercially it is probably wiser to just make more busts. I would find that a pity though.
Adrian
I'm curious if antibusts will become part of the mainstream of products. As much as I like the concept, I am sceptical, as commercially it is probably wiser to just make more busts. I would find that a pity though.
Adrian
Hi Guys ,
A lot of intersting comments here for all thoughts mine is still its a bit sticky ....Gra mentioned about companys planning to do add ons ..well MMM already do this as another addition to their range ..no probs with that its his to commission and get the most out of how he wishes ...and it gives other sculptors work a chance to shine (a la Jimbo) .
How much are the antibusts ?
Intersting to have Carls comments as well ....I agree with him ..but I would be a little miffed if I was not approached at least as a matter of respect for the initial sculpt .
Lets see how this"niche" fits into the market .....
Wonder what the next antibust will be ?
Nap
A lot of intersting comments here for all thoughts mine is still its a bit sticky ....Gra mentioned about companys planning to do add ons ..well MMM already do this as another addition to their range ..no probs with that its his to commission and get the most out of how he wishes ...and it gives other sculptors work a chance to shine (a la Jimbo) .
How much are the antibusts ?
Intersting to have Carls comments as well ....I agree with him ..but I would be a little miffed if I was not approached at least as a matter of respect for the initial sculpt .
Lets see how this"niche" fits into the market .....
Wonder what the next antibust will be ?
Nap
starki
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Thanks for your oppinions. It is very interesting discusion. At the beggining I started to look my german WW2 helmet. I know that is a very small part of market ( a niche of niche of a niche ) as wrote Carl. ( Could You explain Your idea of Toy Story - original movie with my fragments or only my part without original part ) I haven't find another idea to describe for which bust is my antibust. I send a picture another product. For which bust it is? I can do full figure or bust but now I done accesories for them. Best regards and keep going this discusion. Pawel
