Acrylics Black Undercoat

[kilsh]

All

I picked up Figure International 45 last week, there are 2 great articles in there one from Man Jin Kim and one from Sang Eon Lee. Both are getting spectacular results as we have seen on PF with black undercoats for flesh, although there methods after undercoating are quite different.. I know Calvin Tan used to use black undercoat years ago. I have been experiementing and dont really see the benefit over my normal white to be honest. Am I missing something? What are peoples views of the advantages of black over white or grey?

Cheers

Neil

 

[John Bowery]

I think that it is a case of what works for you. It works really well for them but it does not work at all for me. I have a hard time trying to cover the black. But they do get spectacular results. Their idea is that you do not have any areas in recesses showing up as white undercoat that did not manage to get any paint. In the recess it is dark undercoat and therefore the lack of paint goes unnoticed.
Cheers
John

 

[Einion]

They're both using a black primer aren't they?

Once you cover this with your actual undercoat it doesn't make a lot of difference what the primer colour is. But practically, black can be very hard to completely cover; the better the opacity of your paints the less of a problem you'll have with this, if you're using anything with so-so coverage it can be a struggle.

Einion

P.S. Grey is the best primer colour IMO, not white or black.

 

[Funky50]

I find that the darker the primer the more effect it has on your base coat ......ie black primer darker base coat than you may wish....Unless of course you want to lay on a really thick base coat which I assume most do not...all a matter of preference I suppose...but I prefer white myself

 

[DEL]

If you are willing to waste a lot of spray can paint then black has a definite benefit as the initial thin primer coat.
Spray in short bursts having practiced to find the ideal distance from nozzle to model. What your aiming for is a fine smooth coverage ensuring that all 'undercuts' are painted.
Then with your figure standing upright spray grey primer in a halo pattern from above again a couple of light passes should do it.
This serves to ensure that recesses are painted and you have a ready shaded effect to work on.
Be careful and patient and don't clog up detail.
If you use an airbrush then the above technique becomes much more controlled and finer, allowing for a final halo pass with white to give a sense of highlights.
Cheers
Derek

 

[Helm]

I use black,grey and white primer all depending on how I want to go on with a figure often I will use all three on a figure say white for the face,black for chain armour and grey for a surcoat kinda thing

Steve

 

[Edward]

They're both using a black primer aren't they?

Once you cover this with your actual undercoat it doesn't make a lot of difference what the primer colour is. But practically, black can be very hard to completely cover; the better the opacity of your paints the less of a problem you'll have with this, if you're using anything with so-so coverage it can be a struggle.

Einion

P.S. Grey is the best primer colour IMO, not white or black.

Hi Einion, just wondering why you think grey is better than white? I've been using white spray primer by Tamiya and then acrylics..

 

[Sturm Grenadier]

Hello Neil, I think Sang Eon Lee uses Jo Sonya Carbon Black as his primer, which is actually acrylic paint. I believe he sprays it on with an airbrush. It dries dead flat black. I have used all three, white, grey, and black primers, and have used chocolate brown on a few figures as well. For me, using the dark primers, helps to show the shadow areas a little more clearer, as I gradually build up my colors. Regards, SG

 

[Einion]

Hi Einion, just wondering why you think grey is better than white? I've been using white spray primer by Tamiya and then acrylics..

There are a few reasons but one of the most basic is white's best suited to light colours and bright colours, black for dark colours and dull colours while grey is the best middle of the road.

Primer colour is nearly irrelevant from one perspective once you have an airbrush to undercoat with, since if you had to you could go from white to black or black to white without worrying about obscuring detail. But grey works about equally well for most subjects so it's the best single colour if you had to pick just one.

BTW, you can match or exceed Tamiya's primer in something not made for the hobby, saving yourself a bundle in the process - some alternatives are as little as a tenth the price of certain hobby primers.

Einion

 

[Edward]

Thanks for that Einion.

 

[kilsh]

All

Thanks for all your inputs, think I will avoid black for flesh.

Thanks

Neil

 

[kilsh]

All

Thanks for all your inputs, think I will avoid black for flesh.

Thanks

Neil

 

[Helm]

As an aside I just use Halfords basic car primers myself not anything costly which claims to be "just for models"

Steve

 

[pte1643]

As an aside I just use Halfords basic car primers myself not anything costly which claims to be "just for models"

Yep, me too.

I've been using Halfords Acrylic Grey primer for ages... I get, on average, six 1/48th scale aircraft kits primed with one can... You'd get a shed load more 120mm figures.

Despite the opinions of others, you DON'T need their, more expensive "Primer for Plastic", as it's the same acrylic formula just with added plasticizers for use on "flexible" car trims like bumpers etc. (That's fenders, for non UK residents).

And it doesn't mask, or fill, fine casting details either.

Suitable for use on all modelling mediums... Resin, Styrene, Epoxys and Metals, etc. (Although it does take a couple of coats over porous materials like wood or clay).

Certainly works out hugely cheaper than "Model" primers.

 

[Alex Long]

I have taken to undercoating with black vallejo through the airbrush and then overspraying with grey from the angle I want the light to hit leaving the black in the natural shadows. For me this gives a good base for the appropriate colour tones.

Alex.

 

[kilsh]

Intersting the use of Halfords, my son uses the plastic primer on his F1 models but sounds like he should try the standard primer it comes in a bigger can and works out much cheaper.

 

[Knikki]

Yep I use Halfords Primer now as well. I used to use the Tamiya one but found that it appear to give a very smooth surface and I had a problem getting arylics to cover evenly.

 

[Funky50]

Halfords for me too.....

 

[housecarl]

I use Hycote brushable grey thinned through the airbrush, 500ml has lasted me over 3 years.
Not bad a £5 a pot.
Carl.

 

[Helm]

I use Hycote brushable grey thinned through the airbrush, 500ml has lasted me over 3 years.
Not bad a £5 a pot.
Carl.

Yeah but the airbrush and compressor cost £700
Steve