Buying & selling on forums

[Babelfish]

Is it just me? I haven't bought or sold anything on a modelling forum in a while now, but I keep one eye on the trading forums just in case something of interest pops up, and the impression I get is that they're not as lively as they used to be. Not only in terms of the number of new sales threads appearing, but also from guys unable to flog their surplus kits and constantly "bumping" them back up to the top of the pile.

A phenomenon that's by no means unique to the pF trading forum, but it seems to me that there is an increasing lack of realism among both buyers and sellers: too many sellers offering up stuff at pretty much full retail (plus shipping of course, and always charged at top whack), and too many buyers expecting other guys to practically give stuff away.

It also happens on eBay, where unless you're offloading Wingnut Wings kits or a select handful of OOP Airfixes or Tamiyas, the arse pretty much dropped out of the "surplus stash" market a long time ago.

Mindful of the fact that everyone (myself included) likes a bargain, when selling I've always tried my best to pitch my prices to a level that would allow a potential buyer to make a saving, but without taking too much of a hit on what I originally paid. Which by and large has worked well. And when buying, if something's already priced up as a good deal I won't insult the seller by "making a cheeky offer" (aka "taking the piss"), I'll just pay what he's asking. I might (especially if he's UK-based) ask if he'd be open to free shipping on multiple kits, but that's something I'm happy to do myself as a seller.

Not an exhaustive 'good-guys' list (there's a handful of others), but on here "For Sale" posts from people like Brian (Snaddon), Tommi and Keith ("Tecumsea") will usually at least get me to take a gander at what they're flogging because they seem to still have the knack of striking a sensible pricing balance. But this seems to be a dying art at the same time as the number of buyers expecting "champagne for lemonade money" or "camel for donkey price" is increasing.

Just a casual observation I thought I'd chuck out there. Your mileage may of course differ.

- Steve

 

[Nap]

Hi Steve

A very good post here ...yes I agree with your comments ......it's getting harder to sell without virtually giving them away on selling sites and indeed on forums .

Perhaps sellers are hoping for a fairly good price but buyers want a bargain as well ..I certainly do !

I have bumped up my treads incase someone has missed it and might be interested .

As for PF ...perhaps it might be a suggestion that sellers are open to offers etc via pm then it's kept private between them both ...just a thought ?

I must admit I look at my GA and cringe at what it cost as others do I am sure! ...and realising deep down there is no way I will get what I think they are worth ........it's a buyers area IMO

Just my thoughts

Nap

 

[Blind Pew]

I too have noticed less and less kits being offered for sale. Maybe its a cyclical thing....

 

[megroot]

Just wait untill Euro gets closer.
Some will sell there GA to have money to buy some new GA.

Marc

 

[Mark S.]

Any price is too much when you can buy recasts at next to nothing.....often with free shipping.
Clearly illegal copies are having some effect on genuine kit sales.
But as far as genuine kit sales on fora goes, prices still come down to basic supply and demand.
If you don't sell anything at a certain price then clearly it's too much........market determines price.
But it's possibly the continuing rising costs of genuine kits from manufacturers and retailers that keep re-sale prices relatively high...........and recast sales healthy.

 

[Ferris]

It could be me but I didn't notice major changes in the buy and sell forum offerings. I do however share your observation that many are asking close to retail price, which to me doesn't make sense. We all know most of what we buy ends up in the Grey Army, and the only way to keep buying is when tempted by a bargain price.I see little point in saving a few bucks off a figure I was not planning on buying...rather surpress the buy impulse then.

Another factor that may be at play is the sheer amount of new offerings. Perhaps we save our money for the next best thing rather than yesterday's hits....unless tempted by discounts.

Besides, many try and off-load their 'unwanted' figures. The best ones we keep for ourselves. It's likely that these will not be the most popular with others either...so drop the price or get stuck with them.

cheers
Adrian

 

[Ferris]

I just realized another factor at play could be the new rule that you'd need 50+ posts on PF before you can offer figures for sale. Perhaps this rule has dulled down the 2nd hand offering on the forum....? Sometimes well-intended rules have undesirable side consequences.

Adrian

 

[Babelfish]

Clearly illegal copies are having some effect on genuine kit sales.

Sadly true I think. While I don't think that every pirate sale necessarily represents a lost sale to the original manufacturer, they are clearly taking a hit and piracy is an ongoing problem.

I do however share your observation that many are asking close to retail price, which to me doesn't make sense. We all know most of what we buy ends up in the Grey Army, and the only way to keep buying is when tempted by a bargain price.I see little point in saving a few bucks off a figure I was not planning on buying...rather surpress the buy impulse

I concur. I've become much more circumspect in my purchases this past year or so. In fact I haven't bought a single figure yet in 2017. I'm becoming better at suppressing those "impulse" urges to buy stuff online. And at shows, if I see something I like the look of but hadn't planned on buying, I do a couple more circuits of the hall to give the urge to reach for the wallet a chance to subside. And - surprise surprise - more often than not it does!

Another factor that may be at play is the sheer amount of new offerings. Perhaps we save our money for the next best thing rather than yesterday's hits....unless tempted by discounts.

Besides, many try and off-load their 'unwanted' figures. The best ones we keep for ourselves. It's likely that these will not be the most popular with others either...so drop the price or get stuck with them.

Two very good points.

- Steve

 

[Nap]

Hi Guys

Good points and thoughts here ...I also feel we are all becoming more selective in what we buy

Adrian ...personally am don't feel the minimum 50 post has that much impact ..it was put in place so members contribute rather than use the forum solely as a sales output

I also feel that in my case I go through the GA to look for unwanted piece ..open it up and then more than often the interest is back !

Nap

PS ...regarding Marc's comments about Euro ...well this year I will be selling ...SWMBO ! ....still with box art ..lol

 

[Tommi]

But it's possibly the continuing rising costs of genuine kits from manufacturers and retailers that keep re-sale prices relatively high...........and recast sales healthy.

Rise in cost of genuine kits is due to the increase in price of sculptors for the masters, the increase in price for production materials and time for both resin and white metal. Some people just do not know the costings behind putting a figure or bust into production and how many need to be sold just to cover the initial costs before you can think about any sort of profit if any in some cases.

Tommi

 

[ellie]

I agree totally Tommi, the price of masters and materials has risen over the last year, some companies have not passed this on to the customer and stood the rise in costs. the postal rates in the UK have risen in the last 3 weeks and most companies have not reacted to that fact, and still offer free postage world wide. so we have tried to keep the price the same, but we have taken a hit on our margins. couple that with the re casting and you can see why companies are up in arms about things. we at Ellie's miniatures have not had a price rise for 3 years we have tried to keep the price at a level that we are comfortable with at the moment. we just have to sell more kits to keep the price at this level to account for the increase masters and materials.

As for re selling kits maybe people are just holding on to them for longer in the hope that they will get around to painting them in the future. just a thought.

cheers

Ian

www.elliesminiatures.com

 

[Mark S.]

Rise in cost of genuine kits is due to the increase in price of sculptors for the masters, the increase in price for production materials and time for both resin and white metal. Some people just do not know the costings behind putting a figure or bust into production and how many need to be sold just to cover the initial costs before you can think about any sort of profit if any in some cases.



Tommi

Regardless of the various elements involved in the manufacture of figures and busts, which contribute to the rising costs of producing a kit, the point remains that it's those rising costs which keep re-sale prices on fora high.

 

[Andrew Perren]

The laws of supply and demand affect 2nd hand traders as well. I've bought and sold on forums, swap meets and facebook groups. My approach as a seller is to make the prices so attractive to a prospective buyer that their buying constraints be challenged. Of course I have my limits as well, but in general no-one sells something at a price less than they accept at the time and no-one buys something at a price they are not willing to pay at the time. The trick is finding the sweetspot in the middle so both get something out of it. I don't take kits to a swap meet to bring them home again as an example - I choose to liquidate those kits at well below what I paid for them to use the cash for something else ( yes usually other kits ).

One thing no-one has mentioned is that for figures I think there is such a HUGE diversity in scale,subject,media, pose etc that finding a willing buyer becomes much more difficult irrespective of pricing. If I see an item for sale but it is not my scale or subject area or preferred media or isn't a good sculpt /pose etc - it could be free for all I care because I am not tempted to buy it at all. On the other hand if I'm on another modelling forum and see a 1/72 Spitfire for sale (and if I want one) then my interest is gained. I only have to decide if it represents good value for me. It is different because of all the manufactures the end subject essentially looks the same and only an enthusiast chooses based on kit quality issues. The end result will still be a 1/72 Spitfire. Compare that with all the representations of Napoleon for example, even if you are just limited to one scale not all Napoleons look like Napoleon. If I want a Napoleon in my collection there is less chance of me finding one that I am happy with at a price I am willing to pay.

Just my $0.02 worth ( but I'll give it to you for $0.01 !)

 

[Chrisr]

I think you have summed up the situation well Andrew. The diversity of really first class, high quality kits out there these days is overwhelming. One has so much choice, that anything coming up second hand on the forum either has to one of the classic OOP kits or something someone wants at a good price. Nonetheless, looking at the Markets and Commissions lately, we still see a good proportion of them being sold.

Cheers
Chris

 

[custer760]

Another aspect,as far as I am concerned,is the change in forum rules.I used to offer at least twice a year,a list with kits no longer wanted,from myself and my buddies.The rules of the forum now say that you have to post pictures of the kits to sell them....A mammoth Task when there are more than 100 figures on the list.I have a couple of trade tables in Kulmbach again this year,this way everyone Sees what they are buying and my buddies get their Cash immediately,so they can buy more figgies for next Years list.
Regards
Pete

 

[evl hmr]

I buy figures, only those sculpted by Raul Latorre though, as I was late to the hobby and I missed out on the time when Elite, Toison and Latorre were pumping out minis, however, I never sell anything. I only swap/exchange as I don't want to either feel ripped off or feel I've ripped someone off. Mini exchanges feels much more personal