Copyright on the net

[minimaker]

Hi,

Since there are people here who publish articles on internet I thought it would be an good idea if I'd post this here too. Over at the cool mini or not site members have discovered that CMON articles were used in an ebook which is sold on Ebay without getting permission from the authors. Going from the mail from that person it seems he was thinking that it was allowed since there was no copyright mark on the articles.

Now, since knowledge of copyrights is good to be aware of when you publish articles on the net I decided to drop a message on some forums to let people know of a website with info on web articles: http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html (starting on the funpage - copyright myths). Hope somebody finds it useful.

The CMON thread is here: http://www.coolminiornot.com/forums/viewthread.php?tid=12555 for those who are interested.

Bye, Ming-Hua

 

[dario966]

sad world

 

[dario966]

Sad affair but how true, Ming-Hua!
I have had somewhat similar experience recently. Last year I gave to the wikipedia commons, under the free art licence - FAL, some of my illustrations and photos . http://artlibre.org/licence/lal/en/
In December I found out (I guess I was lucky) that some daily newspaper in Warsaw, Poland printed some of them after erasing my signature and without any credit (which is due and required under the FAL) - and only my direct letter to the chief editor and a threat of a civil action forced them to offer some lame appology - sad world indeed.
good luck with your ebay action
dario

 

[PJ Deluhery]

Sorry guys, but if you do not reserve your copyrights prior to intital publication, you wll lose them. Especially on the internet. To protect the free flow of information, it is always assumed that articles, pictures, etc are in the "public domain" (and therfore available to all for use!) unless the author reserves the right to control the work. What you say in forums like this is probably not copyrightable - e.g. Gary's fine sculping series.

At least for the USA, you should put the following legend on all articles, pictures, etc you wish to control:

Copyright 2006 by John Smith. All rights reserved.

(2006 = year first published; John Smith = owner/author of copyright)

(A "c" within a circle after the word copyright is often used, but not required in the USA.)

You do not have to register a copyright to be effective, although doing so gives you additional rights. Often, all you really want to do is be able to stop unauthorized use, and an unregistered (so called Common Law Copyright) copyright will allow that.

Good Luck.

 

[RobH]

so there are conflicting views on this.

One guy over on CMON has seen his lawyer and is beginning action.........

 

[PJ Deluhery]

Well, a good lawyer can always make a case.

And in some situations, the lawyer may be able to make his client enough of a "nuisance " to get a settlement. But, I hope the guy has a lot of money to fund the case until this happens. I wish him luck. I'm not rooting for the "bad guys!"

However it's better to stay out of court in the first place, and if you use a copyright notice, as I described above, you'll be spending your money on figures and not on lawyers. :lol:

 

[Einion]

Originally posted by PJ Deluhery@Feb 24 2006, 04:19 PM
Sorry guys, but if you do not reserve your copyrights prior to intital publication, you wll lose them. Especially on the internet. To protect the free flow of information, it is always assumed that articles, pictures, etc are in the "public domain" (and therfore available to all for use!) unless the author reserves the right to control the work.

Hi Pat, what are you basing this on?

Einion

 

[minimaker]

Hi PJ, your advice on using the notice is good but I hope you don't mind me using your mail to point out a few common misunderstandings on copyrights in general and on internet in specific. Most of them are actually discussed in the article I pointed out but just in case I've just done a checkup of US copyright sites to verify the information.

>if you do not reserve your copyrights prior to intital publication, you wll lose them.
3 issues;
- You do not need to reserve copyrights. They are yours automatically, (unless you are for instance working under a contract that directly transfer the copyrigths to for instance the company you work for). See -1- Note, in the past registration was required at a certain time.
- Publication is not a criteria for obtaining copyrights. It used to be this way but not any more. Publication can play a role in copyright issues though. See -2-
- You do not loose copyrights this way. As it is, unless you do so voluntarilly and knowingly or the copyrights duration has expired it's pretty hard if at all possible to loose. I think the mixup could be because of trademark which can be lost if not defended. See section 5 of -3-. Also -4- and -5-

>it is always assumed that articles, pictures, etc are in the "public domain" (and therfore available to all for use!) unless the author reserves the right to control the work.
Common misunderstanding. Works on internet fall under the same copyright regulations as for instance printed matter (-6-. So it's the othr way around. The author/copyright owner is the only person who can declare his work public domain (unless the rights have expired through age). Internet publications are often thought of as public domain but often are not. See sections 1 and 3 of -3-.

>What you say in forums like this is probably not copyrightable - e.g. Gary's fine sculping series.
Actually they are. Forum, maillist, usenet, etc. messages also fall under copyrights. But since with most services you will have to agree to the service's regulations you may be required to give up your right when joining. This is not the case for this forum by the way. See point 6 of the golden rules in -7-. Nor for CMON. As it is, one of the owners of that forum is a lawyer so he knows better than that. For more info on this subject see -8- and -9-

> Copyright 2006 by John Smith. All rights reserved.
This is not necessary but there are several reason to do so anyway. It's easier to defend in a court case and it works as a reminder for potential users. See -10- By the way, "all rigths reserved" is not part of the official requirement.

Your note on the registration is correct.

By the way, I'm not a lawyer but have had to learn quite a bit on the topic in the last years. I.e. this is not legal advice but for your information.

PJ, hope you don't take this personally. I was hoping this thread would lead to some discussion so people get more informed about the matter and you mail was a good starting point for passing on some info.

Best regards,
Ming-Hua

-1- http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html#hsc
-2- http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html#pub
-3- http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html
-4- http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html#toc
-5- http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html#hlc
-6- http://www.apic-worldwide.com/info.html
-7- http://www.kitspy.com/legal/guidelines.php
-8- http://www.piercelaw.edu/tfield/copynet.htm
-9- http://www.apic-worldwide.com/info.html
-10- http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html#noc

(Damn, 3.30 AM - and I had hoped to go to bed early. )

 

[PJ Deluhery]

I was just trying to give some general "best practices" advice on copyrights. Also, I was trying to keep it simple - not trying to give a general dissertation on copyright law.

Basically, what Ming-Hua says is correct. No offense taken, Ming-Hua! HOWEVER, there's what the law says and there's the real world. I don't think any lawyer will tell you not to put a copyright legend on your work and just trust to the law. Publications on the internet and off still have copyright legends - check any book you own, and many web sites have each page copyrighted. Under the previous U.S. law, creating a copyright was fraught with technical hurdles. The "new" law changed all this by making the copyright automatic, but this is only the beginning.

Yes, you may - technically - own each posting you make on this site, but how does that square with how this site is used? The purpose of this site is to share information and develop camaraderie. You know the world is free to see, use and copy what is here. This site even encourages you to copy and print - it has a print buttion! - whatever is here. You choose to put your article here, and despite knowing how the site is used, you place no restrictions on the use of your article. Under the theory of an implied license, it is reasonable therfore to assume that the personal (or even commercial) use of any material on this site is allowed unless explicitly limited or prohibited. I don't keep up with the case law, so I can't say if this issue has been decided by many courts. However, I doubt that the courts will let you have it both ways. IMHO, I think what's here is in the public domain for all intents and purposes. Someone - anyone - could assemble all the how-to articles here and publish it as a "compilation" and copyright it. If you want to prevent or control this, use a legend.

I am a lawyer, and though this is not my "bread and butter area," I have been on both sides of this issue. I can tell you that as a practical matter of enforcement, things go a lot better if you have the legend on your work. The legend says to the world that you have reserved your rights and are serious about them and plan to enforce them. Potential infringers are warned off, and they will have a much harder time arguing implied license or some other theory if all rights are explicitly reserved. It can be very expensive to just rely on the law, even if you are correct, when the other guy is a scoundrel. Thirty years of practice has taught me that it is always better to grant a specific license than rely on the vagueries of the courts' interpertations of the general law to determine your rights. And since the author is in control of the circumstances of publication, if the author sets no rules, why should any court?

Again, I suggest you put the legend on anything you really care about, for example, articles, etc. What's the old saying? "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure."

Sorry to bore those of you who are getting the feeling that you know WAY more about this subject than you need to!

 

[minimaker]

Hi PJ,

I agree. I also highly recommend adding the copyright signature to photos and articles you write. Oh, and to your sculpts as well of course. As I said, it helps in court and reminds interested parties of it.
The bad thing is that a lot of people seem to think that not having the label means it's public domain. And I sometimes have a tough time convincing people that's not the case.
My other advice is to always check with the maker whenyou want to use something or at least to let that person know even if it's public domain. To me that's basic respect and courtesy.

As to the use of forums, that is quite an interesting subject. One of the reasons I started this thread was to see people's opinions and experiences with that. three threads have had interesting replies. This one, the CMON one and TMP.
My views of forums is the same as you. The most important reasons they are around is to share information and have a good time with people that have the same interest. That's why all the personal use of stuff posted on forums is accepted and encouraged. Good thing too.
The one thing I have seen in the thread is that there is a very strong negative feeling towards the use of forum's material for commercial use without permission and/or on other locations without proper credits. The first is seen as theft and the second (see at TMP) as very rude.
By the way, I'd be interested in finding out more about it too. You may be intersted in reading my reference no 8. That page has thoughts on usenet and maillist use.

Sorry to bore those of you who are getting the feeling that you know WAY more about this subject than you need to!

My apologies too. Though I must say I'm one of those too. Main reason I did learn about it is because I felt a certain responsibility in giving the correct information over at 1listsculpting where I'm a moderator. Still, I rather calculate, design machines or work on computer programs than try to figure laws. Much easier. :lol:

Bye, Ming-Hua

 

[PJ Deluhery]

Well, I didn't initially intend to get this deep in the subject, but I think we have had a good discussion here that may be helpful to others.

Bottom line:

1. If you use others' works for anything besides your own use, get permission first.
2. If you publish or otherwise make avaibable to the public your work, protect it with a copyright legend. It may not be necessary - technically - but its smart.

Great talking with you, Ming-Hua!

 

[PJ Deluhery]

For those of you who are not yet sick of this topic, here's a real-life story that will prove to be very interesting. Lots of money involved. The dispute is over the DaVinci Code appropriating ideas from Holy Blood/Holy Grail.

Follow this one!

DaVinci Code Case

 

[minimaker]

Hehe, I was wondering when those guys would try to get a share of the action. Curious to see how it works out.

Nice talking to you too PJ.

Bye, Ming-Hua