Grenadier Guards insignia 1855

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Wings5797

A Fixture
Joined
Mar 11, 2012
Messages
4,772
Location
Bourganeuf, France
Good afternoon one and all,
Can anyone please help me establish whether or not The 3rd Battalion Grenadier Guards Colour Sergeants wore their gold insignia on the sleeves of their greatcoats in the Crimean War?

All the very best,
Keith
 
Hello Mate,
Strange that you should write, I was thinkingyesterday that it was time I touched base with you and here you are. Spooky.
Thanks for the link Don, typlcal that the greatcoat I need is the only one that's missing. I am most grateful that you are raking around for me too, two sets of eyes are better than one.
I will pm you when the sun comes up mate.
Speak soon, all the very best,
Keith
 
Hi Keith,

Looking at my Crimean Uniforms book by Michael Barthorp Page 36 :

Greatcoat : Grey, with cape , collar and cuffs facing colour ....

nothing about rank though (I might be wrong but do the modern guards not wear their rank on the lower arm ?)

It also states on Page 28 : if cheveron were worn the expense is to be borne by the Sgts and Cpls concerned

To be honest I have not seen any actual ones with facings or rank ...but its out there somewhere!!!

In the section on Line Infantry it also mentions rank in facing colours ..I know this is the guards ...off to work now but will try again later

Nap
 
Hi Kevin,
I got the same about the facing colours but I have only seen it on models, Bill Horans 44th at Gandamak, and never on guardsmen.
I believe that today the guards have black/blue chevrons piped in red but I have not seen what a gold sergeant and above would be.
The pictures that Pete posted on the Billy Mott thread look as though the NCO may have blue cuffs but it's not absolutely clear.
Thanks for your continued help Mate.
Speak soon,
Keith
 
Afternoon Keith, my search has just turned up a photo from Chelsea Barracks 1906, a parade of Orderly NCOs. Sadly from the Coldstreams but all wearing Greatcoats and carrying Pacesticks. These are Drill Sergeants and Lance Sergeants and all wearing Chevrons (white stripes on blue backing) on their lower right arm. Only guys I have found today from Crimea wearing greatcoats are boys, Drummer and Fifer.
The plot thickens!

Don
 
Thats great work Don,
Many thanks Mate. I took a look at the original Roll Call on the Royal Collection website. Zooming in on the man calling the roll I could see very ghostly three stripes in black, could well be navy blue and grey could be used white. The plot does thicken.
Keith
 
Hello Guys,
In order to keep you in the loop on this thread, I have just received this from Trooper on the Victorian Wars Forum;

Dawnay in "The Badges of Warrant and Non-commissioned Rank" states that in 1806 "an order (which also appears to extend the use of greatcoats with distinctive collars and cuffs to the rest of the army, except the Household Cavalry) sanctioned the wearing, on the right sleeve of that garment, of chevrons of the same pattern as were worn on the regimental coat." Then, under the section devoted to Foot Guards, he goes on, " The orders instituting chevrons, introducing greatcoats with distinctive collars, cuffs and buttons for Sergeants, and sanctioning the wearing of chevrons with greatcoats applied also to the Foot Guards. For Non-Commissioned Officers above the rank of Corporal the bars of the chevrons were formed of gold double lace edged with dark blue; for Corporals of white double lace similarly edged." He then goes on to say that if the pattern of badge for Colour Sergeants sanctioned for Infantry of the Line was ever worn by the Foot Guards it would have only beeen for a short time, being replaced by their own designs. From here on no mention is made of badges on greatcoats until the 1881 regulations. From this it is reasonable to assume that the Guards were wearing gold badges on the greatcoats with the appropriate Colour Sergeant's badge for the Grenadiers during the Crimean War. Trooper

Does anyone know of this book and what do you think?

All the very best Chaps,
Keith
 
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