Help Needed German General

[Edorta]

Hi friends. Can someone tell me if the oak leaves fringe and eagle of a german general cap, like Guderian, are silver or gold?
Thank you very much.
Edorta

 

[IIICorps]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/farinihouseoflove/3084120371/
Gold here, but this could be a tinted picture.

 

[Edorta]

Thank you IIICorps. Yes, it seems a tinted fotograph. I ask to all the planeteers, because I´ve seen both, gold or silver, depending on the general.

Military miniatures painted by Eduardo Garcia

 

[Colin_Fraser]

Gold - http://www.1944shop.com/contents/en-us/d29.html See 3rd from bottom.

Colin

 

[Edorta]

Gold - http://www.1944shop.com/contents/en-us/d29.html See 3rd from bottom.

Colin

Thank you very much Colin . As I see both, oak leaves insignia and eagle were made of golden metal. I´ll follow the Gothicgeek Guderian version to paint mine.

Military miniatures painted by Eduardo Garcia

 

[Colin_Fraser]

In the back of my mind I think the national symbol and oakleaf wreath surrounding the cockade were silver thread until some point in 1941 but that doesn't effect you as I assume you are doing a later war Guderian. Let me know if you require the conversion date and I will hunt it down.

Cheers

Colin

 

[Colin_Fraser]

It was later than I thought - the conversion date from silver to gold for the 2 items you asked about (for Generals) was January 1943. Source - "The German army of WWII in Colour Photographs" by Krawzcyk p.92.

Hope this solves it.

Colin

 

[Tarracus]

You are right Colin. There was a regulation in november 1942 (apllied since 1943) that bounded all general and feldmarshals cap emblems to be only in golden metal. So prior to that date many emblems for general caps were as well manufactured in sewed alluminium.

 

[Edorta]

Thanks again Colin and Traacul. It´s a very useful information.
Cheers.

 

[Osebor]

As per my references, prior to 1943 only piping and chinstrap were golden.

And the picture is positively tinted: it dates from the Western Campaign, Guderian wears the rank of General der Panzertruppen (dating the photo prior to Barbarossa), and the shoulder strap is missing the center silver braid.

Regards
Javier

 

[Martin Antonenko]

Colin is right. The Insignia at a generals peak cap of the Wehrmacht (Heer) were silver from 1933 to November 1942. By order from 16.11.1942 they had to be gold.

At the "Waffen-SS" the Insignia of a generals peak cap were silver up to the end of the war. The only SS-general who wore golden insignia was Sepp Dietrich.

Cheers

 

[Edorta]

Thanks to all friedns. All your aportation is good information for me.

Military miniatures painted by Eduardo Garcia

 

[Edorta]

As per my references, prior to 1943 only piping and chinstrap were golden.

And the picture is positively tinted: it dates from the Western Campaign, Guderian wears the rank of General der Panzertruppen (dating the photo prior to Barbarossa), and the shoulder strap is missing the center silver braid.

Regards
Javier

So the shoulder strap must have a silver braid, like in this photo?

 

[Osebor]

If my references are correct ( and I'm not an expert), All wore golden and silver braid up to 1941, the Marshall an all-golden braided strap post-1941.

Saludos, donostiarra!

 

[Colin_Fraser]

From wiki

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_German_Army_ranks_and_insignia#Generals
Generals



Generals' shoulderboards were constructed similarly to those of field-grade officers, but comprised a length of silver Russia braid between two braided cords of gold bullion or Celleon. Since the resulting combination was wider, generals' boards were plaited in four 'loops' rather than five. Their buttons were gilt, and rank was indicated by zero to four silver pips, or crossed batons in the case of field marshals. The underlay was scarlet, except (from 1944) for generals of staff corps, who were instructed to wear Waffenfarbe instead.
In April 1941, Generalfeldmarschall epaulettes were changed to incorporate a central gold cord instead of silver.
Colonels-in-chief wearing that uniform wore gold generals' shoulderboards underlaid with the Waffenfarbe of the regiment rather than scarlet; GFM von Rundstedt sometimes simply pinned his crossed batons to an infantry colonel's epaulettes.

Colin

 

[Martin Antonenko]

Hi Eduardo!

You are right...:

The stars on it were silver, the button was gold!

Note: The shoulder staps of a general-fieldmarshal changed from 1942:

Before...:

After...:

And here the peak caps for generals again:

Before 16.11.1942...:

After 16.11.1942...:

Cheers

 

[Edorta]

Perfect! Osebor and Colin, that´s all I needed to know.
Saludos Francisco Javier, y muchas gracias por tu ayuda.

Military miniatures painted by Eduardo Garcia

 

[Edorta]

Thank you very much Martin. So, if I paint Guderian after 1942, his shoulder straps must be all gold, with silver stars, mounted over a red cloth. And the cap must have gold piping and cords, gold metal eagle and oak leaves. Correct?
Thak you to all for your help.
Cheers

 

[Martin Antonenko]

No, the shoulder straps for generals remained gold with silver up to the end of the war. The stars were silver, the button gold.

Only the ones of a field marshall changed to total gold.

After 1942 is okay for he got the oak leaves to his knights cross in July 1941.

Cap would be okay as You said.

BTW: When You will paint the orders, don't beleave the boxart for it is WRONG!

The orders have to look like this (also like in the photo You show above)...:

Cheers

 

[Edorta]

Ok. Thank you Martin. I painted the ribbon of the chest in black with two white stripes as you say. The ribbon of the cross is not visible in the bust.