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Roc

A Fixture
Joined
Dec 29, 2003
Messages
7,906
Location
Philadelphia, PA.
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Hell fighter.
54mm. white metal.
Limited edition.


Cheers
Roc :)
 
Nice looking figure,but it brings up a question in my mind. Clearly , this is the character Hellboy but under another name. We, as a group, rightfully decry pirating figures. Why do we accept a figure like this bending copyright to the breaking point?
 
Al, why we all buy Andrea Figures!! They are releasing film characters like hell in their general series, nobody cares. Why discussing this small Hellboy within the same reasons?

Andrea makes Alien, Predator, Batman, Spiderman, Planet of the Apes, Catwoman, Rambo, Tarzan and so on.

Even Pegaso makes an Conan.

They all calling their figures not after the film names, so what?

Frank
 
I have to agree. I always thought that was a wee bit hypocritical of us, sounding off about recasting and then buying figures that violate copyright laws. I am guilty of buying Andrea and Pegaso figures too but it is interesting how people will get really ticked about recasting and hardly a word is said about copyright infringement, which this clearly is.
 
I thought the same thing.
However, having said that, do ANY of us KNOW, for a fact, what the licensing agreements(if any) exist between these companies? Mr Andrea and all the rest are under no obligation to explain their company working and dealings to me, as I am not a judge.
 
Part of the difference is the fact that, regardless of subject, this IS an original sculpture. I think the argument will continue WRT 2d v 3d renderings and licensing.
 
A copyright infringment is a copyright infringement, but if one would start calling things with their names, so piracy and recasting are not the same thing as garage kits. There is an abysmal difference.

Garage kits are unlicensed subjects produced ia a very limited run, where limited generally means under 100 issues. Licensing characters could cost an arm and two legs, so people who is in love with those characters does his own take, issuing no more than 20/30 etc. copies. From a legal point of view, up to a certain number (do not remember if 20 of 25) it is considered as a craftsman work, not copyright infringement.

Recasting means taking whatever original piece produced (sculpted and casted) by someone else and reproducing it in a zillion run without asking to the rights owner and making (less or more) money. A garage kit producer sculpt his own work, a recaster simply take an already sculpted work and recast it. Even if you do not have a license for sculpting a copyrighted character, you always have your own right about your own sculpt. A recaster does not own any right about anything.

The worls of garage kits is based on comics and fantasy characters. Official releases (figures produced under license) are mass produced, generating a market which is the most important into the world of scale figures. In comparision, the market of historical figures is just a flea market. There are some limited (official, licensed) production of Marvel or DC characters which sells like the hell, it is not uncommon to see a limited edition of 1000 or 3000 pieces going out in a week, with prices from 100 up to 300/600 USD. They simply consider the world of garage kits as a medium to stimulate his own business.

Now the real question is: really do you think the world of historical figures is so different ? Almost every producer (manufacturer) has something in his own catalogue, let say "remembering" (...) a 2D drawing or a piece resembling the one from another producer. Borrowing original concepts from the well known Osprey tables is something usual. But there are also a lot of figures based on original paintings and a pletora of less or more inspiring sources never mentioned or publicized. Would you like to speak about the work of some of well known masters out there reproducing 'historicals' 2D artworks (let say mainly native indians, napoleonics and so on) and selling his unique pieces for thousands of $$$ ? So if one produces and sells a copy of a Don Troiani Native American is an artist, while producing 20 copies of Captain America is a piracty act ?

Nobody speak about it, and in the meanwhile the 'historical' manufacturers does a mass production of unlicensed characters, from comics, from fantasy, from Osprey, Don Troiani, from all. If that piece had been another (unlicensed) indian or napoleonic based on whatever 2D drawing, sure you would have seen a chorus of Uhuuu! Whooa! Beautiful art!, but being an "Hellfighter" subject the first thing coming into your mind is just piracy...
 
Luca said the main thing: I mean to remember a big discussion in Historical about Mr. Troiani, who had put his atoney on the track of a firm sculpting and selling figures based on his paintings. There were a lot of pros and cons.

And to be fair: Any rendering of the four musketeers, Napoleon, John Wayne, Charlie Chaplin, even a costume or uniform, is stealing design or personal rights from somebody else. But where to start and end here.

For me personal, I do not buy recasts, i. a. copies FROM ANOTHER ARTISTS OR FIRMS origiginal CASTINGS. Because to do so would stop the hobby in an amount of time.

When seller A or B SCULPT and cast a character I like, I do not bother if he has the permisson to do so. And I would like to say, you all think so, because if not, well, no more new figures because nobody would buy the old ones. And than a lot of people would be without work and we would have to paint on paper, noot on beautiful figures.

RECASTING is a crime which can put an end to the hobby! And think, what Andrea, Pegaso, now Beneito (have read they put out some Stan and Ollie figures) are doing cannot be soooo crimefull, because nobody of the Licencde Holders is putting an end to it.

Frank
 

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