Horse archer draw

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DaddyO

DaddyO

A Fixture
Joined
Oct 15, 2014
Messages
2,249
Location
Dorset
Evening all
I'm currently working on the Altores Turkish archer in 54mm.
Lots needed to do including replacing the bow and probably the arrows in the quiver which only appear to have two fletchings. :confused:
As an ex-archer I'm a bit keen to get things correct and this figure is a bit out of my reference zone (I've got a couple of relevant Osprey books and several excellent photos from t'internet) I thought that horse archers of this period/region used a thumb ring for the draw rather than the two fingers depicted by the figure. It's simple enough to change and probably no-one would notice other than an archer, but it would be nice to have a definitive (ish) answer :)

Cheers
Paul
 
Cheers Andrew - Had a very interesting chat with Bob at the PF stand at Folkestone earlier this year so hopefully he'll chip in
:)
 
Paul, horse archers did indeed use the thumb-ring draw ( or Turkish draw), in which case the arrow needs to be on the right side of the bow. Mediterranean draw, as used with the longbow, has the arrow on the left (otherwise the shaft does peculiar things, like shooting off at a frightening angle! I know, we tried all methods in the Towton Longbowmen )
So many figures show the longbow being loosed from the wrong side.
Mediterranean draw from horse back just doesn't work, unless the horse and archer are stationary.

Hope that helps you.

Alan
 
Hi Alan
Thanks for that - pretty much confirms what I suspected (A western draw using an arrow with only two fletchings on a galloping horse was as likely to put the arrow into your foot as the target) :)
Time to break out the scalpel and Miliput
Cheers
Paul
 
DaddyO said:
Evening all
I'm currently working on the Altores Turkish archer in 54mm.
Lots needed to do including replacing the bow and probably the arrows in the quiver which only appear to have two fletchings. :confused:
As an ex-archer I'm a bit keen to get things correct and this figure is a bit out of my reference zone (I've got a couple of relevant Osprey books and several excellent photos from t'internet) I thought that horse archers of this period/region used a thumb ring for the draw rather than the two fingers depicted by the figure. It's simple enough to change and probably no-one would notice other than an archer, but it would be nice to have a definitive (ish) answer :)

Cheers
Paul
Click to expand...

Well,I am not an archer but I have a great love for the period,the subject and the company (this lovely figure is part of my GA too).If I were to make an educated guess,I'd say a thumb draw is more accurate for a turkish archer.

Oda.
 
Hi all!

Sorry to pick up this old thread, but I am presently interested in the Russian (Muscovite) Army of the 16th-17th Century, and I had found this archer and had planned to use it as a Muscovite one, with a couple of changes, of course.

DaddyO said:
...
Lots needed to do including replacing the bow and probably the arrows in the quiver which only appear to have two fletchings. :confused:
...
Click to expand...


If I may ask - why exactly would the bow and the arrows need to be replaced? I am no archer, and no very experienced modeller, so I would be extremely grateful for any information and maybe a pic or two...

DaddyO said:
I thought that horse archers of this period/region used a thumb ring for the draw rather than the two fingers depicted by the figure. It's simple enough to change and probably no-one would notice other than an archer, but it would be nice to have a definitive (ish) answer :)
Click to expand...


What would this thumb ring look like? How can I change it?

Thank you so much in advance for your help!

Cheers
 
Peter Rathgeb said:
Hi all!

Sorry to pick up this old thread, but I am presently interested in the Russian (Muscovite) Army of the 16th-17th Century, and I had found this archer and had planned to use it as a Muscovite one, with a couple of changes, of course.




If I may ask - why exactly would the bow and the arrows need to be replaced? I am no archer, and no very experienced modeller, so I would be extremely grateful for any information and maybe a pic or two...




What would this thumb ring look like? How can I change it?

Thank you so much in advance for your help!

Cheers
Click to expand...


Arrows have 3 fletchings, traditionally made from feather, set at a slight angle to spin the shaft and improve accuracy and distance. two fletchings would make the arrow unstable.

A thumb ring looks like a 'normal' ring often made from bone that fits over the thumb. The arrow is drawn by hooking the thumb over the bowstring and 'locking it' by holding the end of the thumb under the fingers before drawing the bow. This is different from the usual western draw using a tab of leather to protect the fingers and placing the first finger above the nock or end of the arrow and the second (and usually third) fingers below the arrow such as when using a longbow.

In modelling terms the thumb ring draw looks like a closed fist with the string running through the gap and the western draw looks more like a hand shooting a gun with 2 or 3 fingers extended and the tips curling around the string and the thumb and other fingers tucked out of the way.

There's lots of U tube or google footage to show different styles if that isn't clear

Paul
 
DaddyO said:
Arrows have 3 fletchings, traditionally made from feather, set at a slight angle to spin the shaft and improve accuracy and distance. two fletchings would make the arrow unstable.

A thumb ring looks like a 'normal' ring often made from bone that fits over the thumb. The arrow is drawn by hooking the thumb over the bowstring and 'locking it' by holding the end of the thumb under the fingers before drawing the bow. This is different from the usual western draw using a tab of leather to protect the fingers and placing the first finger above the nock or end of the arrow and the second (and usually third) fingers below the arrow such as when using a longbow.

In modelling terms the thumb ring draw looks like a closed fist with the string running through the gap and the western draw looks more like a hand shooting a gun with 2 or 3 fingers extended and the tips curling around the string and the thumb and other fingers tucked out of the way.

There's lots of U tube or google footage to show different styles if that isn't clear

Paul
Click to expand...


Thanks a lot, Paul, your informations concerning fletchings and thumb ring are very clear and helpful!

And what - if I may - should the bow look like?

Thanks for your time and help!

Cheers,
Peter
 
OldTaff said:
Paul, horse archers did indeed use the thumb-ring draw ( or Turkish draw), in which case the arrow needs to be on the right side of the bow. Mediterranean draw, as used with the longbow, has the arrow on the left (otherwise the shaft does peculiar things, like shooting off at a frightening angle! I know, we tried all methods in the Towton Longbowmen )
So many figures show the longbow being loosed from the wrong side.
Mediterranean draw from horse back just doesn't work, unless the horse and archer are stationary.

Hope that helps you.

Alan
Click to expand...
Hi Alan
When did you shoot at Towton? Was that with the battlefield society?
I know John L and Chris B were involved in a (History Hit?) programme a while ago. Perhaps as part of that?
Cheers
DS
 
Peter Rathgeb said:
Hi all!

Sorry to pick up this old thread, but I am presently interested in the Russian (Muscovite) Army of the 16th-17th Century, and I had found this archer and had planned to use it as a Muscovite one, with a couple of changes, of course.




If I may ask - why exactly would the bow and the arrows need to be replaced? I am no archer, and no very experienced modeller, so I would be extremely grateful for any information and maybe a pic or two...




What would this thumb ring look like? How can I change it?

Thank you so much in advance for your help!

Cheers
Click to expand...

Turkish Ottoman and Mongolian bows are more similar than they are different, the main differences are historical origins and minor details in construction such as size and draw weight.

Mongolian bows tend to be slightly larger and sometimes come in heavier draw weights.

The main differences between Turkish and Mongolian bows lie in their design, construction, and historical context. Turkish bows typically feature extreme curvature and are compact.

bow1.jpg




In contrast, Mongolian bows often have a more moderate curvature and tend to be slightly larger than Turkish Ottoman bows.

bow2.jpg


Please check out my figure review Mongol Warrior VS Mongol Warrior. There are references on bow, arrows and thumb ring etc.
https://www.planetfigure.com/threads/mongol-warrior-vs-mongol-warrior.621777/
 

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