Making the best of a weak sculpt?
- Thread starter MattMcK.
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garyjd
PlanetFigure Supporter
Matt, In my opinion a figure with a nice paintjob that is poorly proportioned or sculpted will be just that.~Gary
Blind Pew
PlanetFigure Supporter
Gary knows what he's on about.
All you'll ever get is a well painted, bad figure.
You won't make a silk purse from a sow's ear I think is the old saying.
All you can possibly ever get away with is to paint on suggested detail that isn't there and suchlike, but the larger the scale, the less you can get away with.
NO amount of painting will make an ill-proportioned figure into a good one!
Does anyone agree?
All you'll ever get is a well painted, bad figure.
You won't make a silk purse from a sow's ear I think is the old saying.
All you can possibly ever get away with is to paint on suggested detail that isn't there and suchlike, but the larger the scale, the less you can get away with.
NO amount of painting will make an ill-proportioned figure into a good one!
Does anyone agree?
bonehead
A Fixture
Why would anybody waste their time painting a poor figure? If you want to prove something, that is fine. But there are enough really good figures out there that there should be no reason for doing a bad one!
I remember a book Henri Lion did many, many years ago that showed some old crappy toy soldiers that he gave great paint jobs to. You might try to locate this book. But I think the operation is purely academic in this day and age.
Frankly, life is too short to waste it painting crap! You can guild a turd, but it will still be nothing more than a really shiny turd.
The only valid excuse for painting poor figures is that you cannot tell the difference between a good one and a poor one! Sadly, this happens more often than it should.....
Just my two cents.......
I remember a book Henri Lion did many, many years ago that showed some old crappy toy soldiers that he gave great paint jobs to. You might try to locate this book. But I think the operation is purely academic in this day and age.
Frankly, life is too short to waste it painting crap! You can guild a turd, but it will still be nothing more than a really shiny turd.
The only valid excuse for painting poor figures is that you cannot tell the difference between a good one and a poor one! Sadly, this happens more often than it should.....
Just my two cents.......
A
Alan
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garyjd
PlanetFigure Supporter
I just hope Matt's not painting something he scratchbuilt.~Gary
MattMcK.
PlanetFigure Supporter
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Hey all-
Gary nailed it; I'm deciding whether I should attempt to keep reworking a figure I'm building, toss it and start over, or paint it as is and hope for the best. I suppose I could lie on the floor and weep too, but life's too short for that. Did you ever look at something for so long that you just lose all ability to judge it? That's where I am with this figure. On the other hand, the two people who have seen it in person say keep going... It's the woman from my Earth's Core vignette I posted the other day, if anyone saw it. Ah well, back to the trenches...
I'll watch out for the shiny turds :lol:
Matt
Gary nailed it; I'm deciding whether I should attempt to keep reworking a figure I'm building, toss it and start over, or paint it as is and hope for the best. I suppose I could lie on the floor and weep too, but life's too short for that. Did you ever look at something for so long that you just lose all ability to judge it? That's where I am with this figure. On the other hand, the two people who have seen it in person say keep going... It's the woman from my Earth's Core vignette I posted the other day, if anyone saw it. Ah well, back to the trenches...
I'll watch out for the shiny turds :lol:
Matt
garyjd
PlanetFigure Supporter
Matt, It's good not to get discouraged about these things and maintain a sense of humor at the same time. Sometimes it's best to set a project aside for a few days or maybe even paint a stock kit. It's amazing how fresh something looks when you have not seen it in a while.~Gary
quang
A Fixture
Hello Matt,
Who says anything about wasting time?
In my book, you can ALWAYS learn something from anything, even painting turds.
So keep on rolling the putty!
All the best,
Quang
Who says anything about wasting time?
In my book, you can ALWAYS learn something from anything, even painting turds.
So keep on rolling the putty!
All the best,
Quang
Kandor8
Well-Known Member
Back in 1977, when I first started painting, there were far more turds than gems. There were exceptions, Post Militare, Series 77, Barton, and very few others of any quality. Today we don't have that problem. The quality of sculpting today is fantastic! The internet has turned this into a worldwide forum and source tool that is amazing. You don't HAVE to paint an I&R figure that sucks (WHY are they still in business and we've lost Post Militaire?) simply because they had the only figure of Geronimo and Andrew Jackson. For lack of a better term - flush the turds! Don't waste your time on a piece of dreck. Cull from the rich offerings available to us now! After a 16 year absence from the hobby I am more excited by what is out there now than I ever was before and I'm gonna have a blast! But I ain't gonna paint a crappy figure even if I were its scupltor. Crap by any other name is still crap.
Ric
Ric
quang
A Fixture
Turds and gems are all in the beholder's eye.
My point is: it's up to oneself, not to others, to decide which is which.
Now, if you find that revolutionary, be my guest!
Q.
My point is: it's up to oneself, not to others, to decide which is which.
Now, if you find that revolutionary, be my guest!
Q.
Guy
A Fixture
So so true...Originally posted by quang@May 21 2005, 02:53 AM
Turds and gems are all in the beholder's eye.
My point is: it's up to oneself, not to others, to decide which is which.
Now, if you find that revolutionary, be my guest!
Q.
Wlas
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jun 4, 2004
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- 393
To a large degree I have to disagree, Quang, with all do respect. Turds the world over are easily recognized, and are easily differentiated from gems. I prefer NOT to use such an analogy in discussing sculpting skills. A poor work ( and there are standards in this field ) is simply that: Poor work. Due either to lack of training and experience ( the usual case ) or lack of talent ( where training may help a little but lack of the 'creative heart' will not do much in the long run ).Originally posted by quang@May 21 2005, 02:53 AM
Turds and gems are all in the beholder's eye.
My point is: it's up to oneself, not to others, to decide which is which.
Now, if you find that revolutionary, be my guest!
Q.
The problem in this thread concerned a piece of sculpting that did not satisfy the artist. It is his first work and he was hoping to find simpler solutions here other than doing the figure over again. He had chosen a taxing scenario for a 'first' of that there is no question. But there is also no question that he must go to 'war' again and do the piece over.
As an artist, Quang, you understand that: " If the Medium does not fight you, it is not Art. "
Einion
A Fixture
I agree completely with the opinions expressed above that truly bad figures are a waste of painting time - the best you can hope for is a well-painted bad figure. However Matt asked about figures where "the initial sculpt isn't the best", which isn't quite the same.
So Matt, Gary's point about poor anatomy and sculpting is completely right IMO but there are other things that might not be quite up to scratch on an otherwise decent figure - a little weak in the details or lacking in sharpness; there are many figures that I can think of that fit into this category. Or it could be one that is simply cast poorly, which is one of the reasons I've become such a fan of resin over the years as the casting detail tends not to let you down, as is all too common with white metal.
While generally I think the paintjob should be geared to suit the quality of the sculpt, you can improve a figure by painting in sharpness and detail that are lacking; many of us already do this to some extent on commercial figures even if it's not consciously. However I do think it's best to not do this only by painting if we're talking about overall softness - I still remember the advice in one of Stan Catchpol's guides to refine details with files and a knife before the painting and this is still worth bearing in mind even if you're not doing Historex figures.
Einion
So Matt, Gary's point about poor anatomy and sculpting is completely right IMO but there are other things that might not be quite up to scratch on an otherwise decent figure - a little weak in the details or lacking in sharpness; there are many figures that I can think of that fit into this category. Or it could be one that is simply cast poorly, which is one of the reasons I've become such a fan of resin over the years as the casting detail tends not to let you down, as is all too common with white metal.
While generally I think the paintjob should be geared to suit the quality of the sculpt, you can improve a figure by painting in sharpness and detail that are lacking; many of us already do this to some extent on commercial figures even if it's not consciously. However I do think it's best to not do this only by painting if we're talking about overall softness - I still remember the advice in one of Stan Catchpol's guides to refine details with files and a knife before the painting and this is still worth bearing in mind even if you're not doing Historex figures.
Einion
Jimmy S
A Fixture
the best out of the worst? All we have to do is take a look at some of the box art on the stuff Verlinden has been putting out recently. I think the whole topic is covered - good figures,bad paint job/bad figures good paint job and so on and so on......now thats real talent!!!!!!
quang
A Fixture
Hello John,
May be I was too abrupt in my statement that 'turds and gems are all in the beholder's eye'
. Let me explain.I remember some of the things (films, paintings, music,...) I used to admire when I was 20. Now a few decades on, I don't find them so 'cool' or 'awesome' any more and looking back, I don't quite understand how I could have wasted my time on such banalities.
Call it education, experience or simply 'aging', the fact is that our perception of things is strongly influenced by our personality. As our personality evolves with time, so does our perception of things. Vintage individuals like myself will remember with embarrassment how we dressed ourselves up in the 1970s. Yet we all thought we were so-o-o cool! :lol:
What I was saying is: let's not be too hasty in our judgement (if we have to judge at all). One thing we find genial one day can reveal itself as stupid a few years on. And vice-versa.
Of course, you have the right to disagree with what I'm saying but at least, I've made myself clear. Well, sort of
All the best,
Q.
Wlas
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jun 4, 2004
- Messages
- 393
Hi Quang,
I understand what you are getting at since I did look 'cool' way back then.
Like you and many others from our time I was constantly delighted at the work available and of course they don't hold a candle to the work of today. But ( and it's a very big 'but' ) even back then we didn't equate the figures being produced with
the sculpture of Michelangelo. Back then we 'knew' there was a fairly big distance seperating the Napoleonic kits available and the art of Rousselot. It was the simple fact that these kits were being produced ( regardless of the quality ) that delighted us so. It was 'our thing' and people were providing us with what we needed.
A series of events also happened in the 70s.
Ray Anderson showed that what Madame Desfontaine could do to basic 'toy' soldiers we could do with Historex. Shep Paine took it a step further by achieving greater realism and drama. Many with 'latent' talents took up the call and a great deal of work from the late 70s and early 80s holds up well today. It's this history of the art form that all work is compared to today and justly so.
The bottom line is that we always knew what 'good' is, but back then what was provided was the only game in town until some energetic creative geniuses showed us it didn't have to be.
As an aside, what makes the community of miniature artists special is that there is an unlimited willingness to share. This gives Matt as many opportunities to grow
and find a level of comfort in his work. Resources abound for his sculpting needs as well as painting. Everything from 'online data', books, magazines and generating friendships among his peers.
It will be Matt's honesty about his own work ( he has shown it ) and his desire to improve that will shape him and he has literally a world of friends to help him along.
I miss bell-bottoms......
I understand what you are getting at since I did look 'cool' way back then.
Like you and many others from our time I was constantly delighted at the work available and of course they don't hold a candle to the work of today. But ( and it's a very big 'but' ) even back then we didn't equate the figures being produced with
the sculpture of Michelangelo. Back then we 'knew' there was a fairly big distance seperating the Napoleonic kits available and the art of Rousselot. It was the simple fact that these kits were being produced ( regardless of the quality ) that delighted us so. It was 'our thing' and people were providing us with what we needed.
A series of events also happened in the 70s.
Ray Anderson showed that what Madame Desfontaine could do to basic 'toy' soldiers we could do with Historex. Shep Paine took it a step further by achieving greater realism and drama. Many with 'latent' talents took up the call and a great deal of work from the late 70s and early 80s holds up well today. It's this history of the art form that all work is compared to today and justly so.
The bottom line is that we always knew what 'good' is, but back then what was provided was the only game in town until some energetic creative geniuses showed us it didn't have to be.
As an aside, what makes the community of miniature artists special is that there is an unlimited willingness to share. This gives Matt as many opportunities to grow
and find a level of comfort in his work. Resources abound for his sculpting needs as well as painting. Everything from 'online data', books, magazines and generating friendships among his peers.
It will be Matt's honesty about his own work ( he has shown it ) and his desire to improve that will shape him and he has literally a world of friends to help him along.
I miss bell-bottoms......
quang
A Fixture
Yes, but NOT until we see it!
And as we can only perceive what our brain (governed at every instant by our education, cultural environment and experience of life) allow us to see, we can understand why things that were genial and 'groovy'
way back when would be seen as barely mediocre nowadays. So does the 'art' of the miniature figure then and now. I persist in saying that we should not be too rigid in our judgment.
To Matt's qualities of honesty and perseverance, there's a third one which IMO is as essential: the ability to look at one's own work with a pinch of salt.
It doesn't amount to much but it does a lot to help breaking mental barriers and permitting one to persevere despite the difficulties.Yeah, but what about those smelly and rash-inducing Afghan shepherd coats? :lol:
Q.
