Non metallics

[TADATSUGU]

I am contemplating the move from enamels and oils to acrylics but am nervous of attempting the non metallic technique. Would anyone out there please offer some help on their favourite colours for painting silver and gold braid in this medium as I am mainly interested in Napoleonics.

 

[Nap]

Hi there ,

I use NMM with just 3 colours GW Snakebite Leather , White And Black adjusting the mixes accordingly ,however I also have used the sets from Scale 75 which are very good indeed



I also add a bit of retarder to my mix

It takes some patience remember it's all about placement , there are lots of SBS with this also on You tube just search NMM

I am sure others will also come to your aid as well

Nap

 

[Tecumsea]

David, I've got some articles on the subject that I could copy and bring to Telford for you unless we manage to get together before then.

Going over to the dark side..huh

Keith

 

[Mirofsoft]

I don't know
I have seen the tremenduous effects of some painting with acrylic non metallic, it's very good but for me it's a technic for 2D painting ( like the actuals false flats, without any sculpt effect, it's great painting, but in my humble opinion, not to be classified as figure painting ), we are painting in 3D, I'm just enhancing shadows and highligths, and metal is metal ( but not in heraldry ) .

 

[peedee]

Thank goodness someone else has said this at last.
Strap in I have teally strong views on this.
Hopefully without insulting anyone along the way
Why oh why oh why do people persist with non-metallic metallic.

Guys read the words themselves again and it's like the. "Emperors new clothes" syndrome.
The words are hollow and empty you are folling yourselves unless you are painting proper flats.
You cannot ever have a scenario of a ronde bosse figure standing in zenithal lighting outside of a boxed/framed diorama or your cabinet, unless the light scource is still within the figures frame of reference, ie carrying or stood next to a lamp.
As soon as you move the figure 'in any plane other then that in which it is designed to be seen' even by a few millimetres the illusion is defeated and looks to my eye faintly ridiculous.
There are only two types of metallic we reproduce ,
shiny/dull metal or glitttering braid.
Can we please stop it.
For those old enough to remember these fads,, my earnest hope it lasts only as long as loom bands, jls, and deely-boppers did!
I am genuinely all for new mediums methods and techniques to be deplyed by us.
But:-
We don't paint canvas.
We already have these colours in our paintbox so a special set is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.
The best painters don't need the technique
It's an irrelevent method.
If I were a judge in a competition; I would actively seek to disqualify those who use the teqhnique as stilfing and restricting my enjoyment of a wonderful sculpture to a single viewpoint when we all want to pick 'em up and admire them all round.
Rant over .
Pleeeeeease enjoy your modelling

 

[peedee]

Oh sorry, to answer your question!
Steel: base coat of 'miniature paints' chain mail. Mid tone: citadel silver and gloss varnish with a touch of blue and black, Very sparing highlights of silver at 'scratch points'
Brass: base: chestnut and umber with a touch of purple, Mid tone gold and tan leather, then gloss varnish. Highlights gold with a touch of silver.
Copper: base: chocolate brown and gold, highlights of just gold and varnish.
Gold braid : base: 50:50 choc and gold, mid tone 50:50 tan and gold highlights 50:50sand and gold This gives a gliter not a shine
Silver braid: base 50:50 gunmetal and asphalt grey, midtone 50:50 steel and a complimentary grey, highlights 50:50 silver and german insignia grey (vallejo)

I hope this helps you

Paul

 

[Nap]

Hi Paul ,

Good response mate ...everyone to their own preference mate ...made a note of your mixes !

For me NMM will be a part of my painting ..continually learning as we all are

Thanks for looking in

Nap

 

[peedee]

Yep
It's all off my chest now and done and dusted.
No more comments, it was never to ridicule anyone,
I just can't see it.
But hairyroldplanes and rusty dirty noisy tanks bore me rigid,
and I still appreciate the modellers skill there too so ......
For me it's all sonna be shiny, shiny shiny, glittery sparkly stuff.
Yum, yum yum !


Paul.

 

[Ferris]

Based on your question it seems to me that you think there are no metallic acrylic paints (I mean metallic metallic)?
Not sure if you meant it that way, but just in case: there ARE acrylic metallic paints, even very good ones, such as the latest Scale75 metallic sets (so not the non-metallic metallic sets that are shown above). Game Colour's are good as well.

Not a fan of NMM either: it requires considerable graphic skills to get right, but I find it only works in pictures, and not when viewing in 3D. Still impressive work though.

Adrian

 

[TADATSUGU]

Oops. didn't mean to start paint wars. I have only recently returned to modelling. Acrylics are a medium I have yet to try and I was never satisfied with metalic looking braiding. As I said in my original posting I used to use metalic enamels shaded with oil washes. Peedee, I apreciate what you are saying about zenithal lighting. maybe i didn't make myself clear. I don't intend to use the NMM method of painting, only to experiment with NM acrylics to reduce the metal look on braid and acheive a duller look. i.e still apply the paint as per zenithal painting. I have seen a lot of impressive painting done in acrylics and maybe naively thought this may be worth a try.
It was more a case of what are the best colours to use for braiding tones and thank you Nap and Peedee for your inputs. LOL Keith - but I've always followed the dark side! Any articles you may have would be gratetfuly received but don't go to any great trouble over it, I just need to pick up those brush things and bite the bullet.

 

[peedee]

David no probs,
the paint mixes I listed are the same acrylic mixes I've used for years, and at that time evryone was using enamels.
Most people that see my stuff ask how do I do this with these oils ?
You gotta just hava go and find what suits you.we can all disagree on this forum and still support each others finished figures, but sometimes we have to say what we feel. I feel better for saying it though,
Paul

 

[Tecumsea]

David no probs,

Most people that see my stuff ask how do I do this with these oils ?

Most people who see my stuff say, what did you paint that with? stripper? LOL

 

[Tecumsea]

Sorry made a mess of that last post-still can't get used to this "Quote" business.............and now I don't seem able to edit it........DOH

 

[peedee]

So that's the secret is it keith you paint with a burlesque performer alongside you eh

 

[valiant]

An interesting thread, somewhat close to my own experience. I too, am in the process of ditching the enamels after more years than I care to say! I was given a box of part used acrylics earlier this year to experiment with, ostensibly to speed up my wargames painting! I have persevered and have even painted my first entire large scale figure using them (Ralph, Lord Stafford, on a recent post)

I have just purchased some retarder to try, as this was the final test before completely binning the enamels. I will let you know the outcome! However, I have found acrylics great to use and has speeded up my painting no end. The metallics are great to use and the advantage is that I can use acrylic washes over them, something that I could never do over enamel metals.

The final push for binning the tinlets was after partly completing a commissioned piece, I bought a replacement colour, which I have used for years and found it had completely changed shade from the previous tin!!

Regarding your original query, I always use a solid basecoat of shade and highlight, then an almost drybrush of metallic just to give it a glint, as I also, do not like bright metallic lacework!

Sorry if I went on a bit, or hijacked the thread, but Ive found this quite cathartic!!

Steve

 

[gothicgeek]

David ... As mentioned there are some very good metallic acrylics out there. I used to use Vallejo and Citadel but have stopped and moved over to NMM.

I understand that some will never accept the use of NMM in 3d painting but hey rules are for breaking in the context of an artistic discipline. In my opinion

Paul! Keep at the metallics if thats what you want

Advice wise, get some metallic pencils and graphite is awesome for silvery gun metal effects....

 

[peedee]

I have to make a small but valid point here.
Defending nmm tecnique by alluding to an artistic disciplline could smack of the pretension that I am alluding to.


We are modellers and not members of the royal academy if I where painting a canvas I would have to employ such a method.
I am not some kind of blinkered stuck in the past figure painter.
It's not a case of keep using metallics if I want.

When I paint flats, metallic paints look ridiculous, and like everyone else I am directing a light scource and using
Non-metallic methods, in context. In doing so we have to push this methodology to the extreme to create a
3dfinish onto a 2d surface.
When I paint a figure; bust or full, unless in a frame or box nmm does not work is invalid.
Only one person shouted out in the emperor's new clothes and if it's me so be it.
But I didn't need a set of scale30 paints to do flats
As I said solutions to non-existant problems is nothing but pretension.
We are not creating fine art here, we are supposed to depict reality in a smaller scale.
I said earlier rant over.
I don't see any acceptable counter argument about this.
One on one I have discussed this in genuine sincerity with people who use the technique
And so far they have all conceded there is no need for it.
My point is simply move the figure one inch to one side and the effort is wasted.
Q E D
So. yes I'll continue to paint in metallics in 3d I have to,
Look at how my avatar is watching me
His non metallic eyes follow my brush around the room
I can't stand it
Paul

 

[gothicgeek]

If you can see no relevant counterargument the conversation is indeed over.

 

[peedee]

And that was Exactly my original point, and as I said, without offending anyone, there can hardly be a counter argument to
"it doesn't depict reality in 3d"

But that doesn't and won't stop people using the technique.
They have fun with it, but it's pointless.

Paul

 

[kagemusha]

If you look on the right hand side below the post you want to quote....you will see the word 'Quote' in blue.....click on it...and a line of letters and numbers will appear in your reply box.....

Now press 'Return' on your keyboard a couple of times.....so your response will be separate from the quote......type in your reply....then click on "Post Reply' as normal.....

Hey presto.....it will appear with the quote in a yellow area.....and your reply below as normal.................hope this helps!

Regards

Ron