Pirated figures - your thoughts?

[Guy]

Over on ModelSculpt Forum there is a discussion that affects us all. The blatent selling of pirated castings and how it effects us all. I wanted to also start this discussion here to see how our English speaking members feel about this growing problem.

Here is a link to ModelSculpt forum's discussion:
http://www.modelsculpt.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=962&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Here is my comment I posted on their forum. I take a pretty hard line about the growing problem we face that is hurting the hobby.

Piracy of figures to me is the same as stealing. A person who will pirate a casting from any legitimate manufacturer and market it as his own is a thief. In the 35+ years of painting figures, there has been many figure pirates. Back in the 80’s Series 77 took one Pirate to court for casting and selling pirated castings of their figures. Series 77 won the court case and the seller was fined and ordered to cease producing and selling the figures. The seller was also “Blackballed” from attending any US shows as a vendor or in the competitions.

On several occasions I have had the opportunity to buy suspicious castings I thought were copies. I refuse to buy these as it just aids the thief in his business. I have had collectors who want figures painted and bring me a figure, out of a box, no instruction sheet and ask me to paint them, for them. I have always refused to do so as these figures I am sure are pirated castings.

I know the economy in various countries are having rough times and hobby money is not as plentiful as before and this is when we see the pirates come out of the woodwork and try to sell us figures they claim are theirs. By buying these figures we hurt the hobby we all love so much. I am always looking for a good buy as everyone else is and daily look on ebay to find someone who is selling figures. I have quite often seen figures (Pegaso) offered by a seller in Argentina I turn these sellers into ebay as pirated copies. Ebay will remove them from the auction and the seller creates another account and lists them again. for 99 cents to 24.99 for a 90mm figure.

I wanted my friends of ModelSculpt to know that we here in the USA do not sanction or support figure pirates. They are no more than common thieves that hurt our hobby.

Anyone who makes and sells a pirated casting or buys a pirated casting is a thief..

What are your thoughts about this issue?

 

[Einion]

Piracy is theft, simple as that. IMO we should have a zero-tolerance policy on it. Any time the subject has come up here those who post are very supportive of the manufacturer/sculptor whose work has been ripped, but that's to be expected - I don't think any member would post anything in support of recasters even if they bought this kind of thing

This has always been a big problem in the garage-kit world for a couple of reasons. I read a comment from someone a few years ago, regarding the numbers of a limited-run piece that are seen in galleries online and at the shows in the US... it would appear a lot more people are buying recasts than would own up to it!

I have to admit I have been tempted to buy one or two recasts over the years, in two categories:
1, resin copies of something only available from the original manufacturer in vinyl (as far as we can tell - sometimes the maker is in Japan and it's hard for non-Japanese speakers to find out production information).
2, an OOP piece where it's simply no longer available.

Einion

 

[Roy]

Guy, you have my total agreement on this serious situation.

I know there are many sculptors that visit these forums, hard working sculptors at that, and very hard working businessmen and women who turn out some beautifully crafted kits, for the very discerning modellers that part with their own equally hard earned cash to pay for the privilidge to paint them and be part of this wonderful hobby.

It always hurts when we see some of the best examples of our artwork taken up and copied and sold as cheap knock-offs...it can only harm the hobby in general, although still many are sold to undiscerning modellers.

Model piracy will always be theft, however it's wrapped.

 

[captnenglish]

Recasting=piracy

 

[megroot]

I totally agree with you Guy.
There is no more to say for me. You said it perfectly.

Marc

 

[AJLaFleche]

an OOP piece where it's simply no longer available.

Einion

This does seem to fall into a gray area. The piece is no longer in production and the company may no longer exist. Buying a knock off of Pegaso's Templar Sergeant for $20 may be a mortal sin, but would buying a recast of a Chota Sahib kit be a venial sin?

 

[Tommi]

I have seen several so called Pegaso kits on ebay from an Argentinean seller, I sent them several messages asking if the kits were original and shipped out in the proper suppliers box, surprisingly I never got a reply, £24.99 for a 90mm kit speaks for itself.
Even after 10 years of ceasing trading in my own figure business I still see my figures on ebay been recast under several different names.
Tommi

 

[Wlas]

This has been discussed a thousand times, but ( frankly ) I kinda like pirate figures. Specially those with the parrot on the shoulder and the pegleg. I'd rather buy a pirate figure than another Templar or Roman. I just don't know where all this anti-pirate talk comes from!? True, they weren't Saints, but it was a decent living for many with no opportunities for advancement in the corporate world. And, may I point out, they didn't have a Golden Parachute if they failed....

 

[BobLff257]

It is interesting to read these comments as by coincidence I have today discovered that one of my own figures is being pirated on ebay and this is obviously very upsetting. A lot of time, effort and money goes into a production piece and to see it being ripped off is gutting. I am currently looking into this to try and stop the sale of this figure - if anyone has any advice for me I would be grateful! These actions only succeed in damaging my modelling business.

Rob

 

[Wlas]

The problem, Rob, is the Internet. Before it came into being you had to deal with things on a local region and would have some actual power. With people making copies of others work in the Ukraine, Korea, China, Taiwan, Argentina, Russia and for all I know....Kazakhistan and Greenland. You can complain to ebay....sometimes they do something about...sometimes not. You can contact the Seller who will plead 'innocence' with a sneer. You can complain here among your peers who will support you and not purchase the copies ( maybe ) but your power is limited.
Pirating has been going on for decades. During the earliest times it was not stopped. Now with a world market you are between a rock and a hardplace.

 

[Mark S]

Well said,Guy.I agree with you all points but I fear Majnun is right when he says the internet has magnified the problem.All of us should still do as much as we can to stem it though.
I was out-bid recently on e-bay on a genuine Pegaso kit by the Argentinian pirate mentioned earlier so I'm expecting to see that one copied and up for sale soon.

 

[Zlobov*S]

Hello dear!
Thanks Guy is really terrible theme - and such plagiarism prevents development of our hobby.
Probably plagiarism became a part of a problem for closing Seil. On some sites we see many figures of our friends and colleagues is disgustingly, sell fine figures on 7 $.
Probably we together shall not solve a problem - but we can watch and warn{keep up and warn} friends.
Thanks for the Planet of Figures and to colleagues for support of a theme. Yours faithfully.

 

[diosytexas]

i live in the u.k. 200 cigs cost £58 i can buy 200 at work for £28 brought in the back door from another EU country. a ticket to the cinema will cost me £7 i can buy the movie on DVD for £1. a CD album will cost me between £9 to £12 in ASDA. i can buy the latest 20 albums released this week on a MP3 disc for £3.this is a list of three things there are more. have i taken advantage of anything that i feel/know is moody YES i have. they say if you live in a green house don't throw stones. i can't condem somebody for buying things that are rip off's .you pay for what you get. if your willing to take sub-standard because you can't afford the real thing i will not judge you, if i say it's ok to fiddle the goverment of thier tax or warner brothers and sony saying they can afford it where do i draw the line. a few years ago some countries took tv's hi-fi's motor bikes and cars mass produced them cheaper should we have stood back then and said hang on should we be buying from them it may put our own industries a risk. we fight wars for freedom of choice we do not always choose what is right... i don't think we can stop it or force others not to do it . it may not be what others wan't to hear but is it far from the truth. dave.

 

[Mark S]

I don't think anyone would force others to do anything except to consider the consequences cheap reproductions have on the quality producers and sculptors.
The eventual end to that scenario would be a lower standard across the whole industry,just like the tv's,
hi-fi's,cars etc.
Just a matter of careful consideration of where your money is going.

 

[dinovision79]

I agree with Guy, and also with Dave, it will be always present, but there can be a lot to do against to decrease the numbers. Similarly to the 'why another german?' issue, the (pirate) industry produces, if it sells, that's where from it should be approached and tackled! Yet again impossible to eliminate it completely. One possibility would be to make eBay deal with them seriously, being the biggest market for them, eg. another is to discuss it here and other forums.

Denes

 

[Uruk-Hai]

Treat the pirates of the 21th century as in previous centuries. Send them to the gallows...........

Hi ho and a bottle of rum.....

 

[Einion]

This has been discussed a thousand times, but ( frankly ) I kinda like pirate figures. Specially those with the parrot on the shoulder and the pegleg.

One possibility would be to make eBay deal with them seriously...

Best of luck with that! eBay don't give a toss as long as they get their cut - they make public claims to the contrary but their track record shows the truth.

Treat the pirates of the 21th century as in previous centuries. Send them to the gallows...........

The gallows is too good for 'em, send the swarthy dogs to the gibbet I says!

Einion

 

[tonydawe]

Keelhaul the bastards.

It's theft and its taking money out of talented people's hands and putting it in the hands of opportunists and people with no interest in the future of our hobby.

Cheers

 

[blaster]

Let him without sin...

Dear John,

Pirated figures did not originate from 3rd world countries.

the 3-D figure modelling hobby grew out of toy soldiers, originating in Europe, grew big in England (Britains) and took off in the US before coming back to Europe again. Piracy was blatant then in the toy soldier industry, with many ripoffs coming from the US.

Regarding the model soldier industry, I don't know if you are aware that remodelled Historex figures, especially the horses, were blatantly reproduced for sale and advertised in a now defunct US magazine "Campaigns".

Rgds Victor

 

[Wlas]

Dear Victor, I did mention that this has been going on for decades. It's just that the Third World has discovered Capitalism and are exercising their entrepreneurial skills at a dizzying clip.
Though I'm just a young boy I do remember Roc telling me of a magazine called Campaigns that used to be the hallmark of the hobby in the long ago.
And there is a legend about some company in the North East, USA that knocked off 54mm Staddens like hotcakes.
I credit England with generating the hobby back in the late 50s/early 60s ( not counting Flats of course ). I credit the Third World in modern times with taking pirating to a new level.
Counterfeiting in one form or another has been with us for centuries Victor. And though I am with sin I am of the type who will cast the first stone just for the hell of it.
Cheers,
John