The Holocaust ....SENSITIVE

[Nap]

Hi to everyone ,

This is a very sensitive subject and at no time do I wish to condone any events or show any disrespect fo anything related to this or persons whatever nationality.

I remember seeing somewhere a model of a crying coloured GI carrying a victim ..a very moving piece

This thread is in relation to a visits made to a camps in Poland and Germany which so moved me I would very much like to produce a model wether it's a bust or figure in collaboration with my dear friend Hugo at RP models.

This is not a business thing as every single penny in sales will go to a museum .

I would appreciate your thoughts on ideas and comments

Please be honest

Feel free to PM me if you wish

Nap

 

[Colin_Fraser]

Kevin - I see nothing wrong with such a model and see little risk of criticism from within the hobby. Perhaps less understanding from outside. If you know of any modellers of the targeted backgrounds, especially Jewish, their views may carry more weight.

That might be a model you want to expose for comment as a WIP to ensure the tone is right.

But if we can do SS men in leather coats with alsatian dogs on leashes, surely we can do something that reflects the victim and liberator. Perhaps a generic piece that could be made to show either a western ally or a Russian. They liberated camps too, although recently our media might like us to forget that.

Nice touch to donate proceeds....I hope profits, not revenues

Just some thoughts. Good luck.

Colin

 

[Helm]

FWIW I don't think you should use a direct copy of any historic picture purely because it is real people you are using much like I wouldn't like the idea of a real wounded/dying soldiers picture being used, but I see no harm in using a generic scene/figure to depict this at all. There have been few depictions of this part of history but the ones I can recall have all been done in carefully restrained manner, Carl Barton's sobering Resettlement is the one I recall most but there have been others.
Steve

 

[Nap]

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the comments...generic could be the way .

Colin ...all monies will be donated....absolutely no profit at all ..ALL PROCEEDS

Remember Carl's diorama

Hope to get some more replays

Nap

 

[Colin_Fraser]

That is very generous Carl. I hope you at keast get a tax deduction re donating your costs.....sorry.....In my prior life I was an accountant :-(

Colin

 

[theBaron]

It's a serious subject and it's certainly worthy of discussion, so why not? Plus, as has been pointed out, the subject has been done.

Just because some are uncomfortable with a subject, is no reason not to talk about it, or to use our medium to portray it.

And you're doing good, with your kind donation.

So, go for it!

Prost!
Brad

 

[kenshin393]

Odd, isn't it, that we make our models of soldiers, past, present and future, depicting them in the process of daring-do, mortal combat and heroism, but so very rarely do you see a piece that portrays the reality of war. The dehumanisation and the terrible consequences. I hear it said that our hobby is art and if it is, then this is the sort of thing we should be seeing. True art moves you and I would welcome more of this sort of work.
Regards, jim.

 

[Tubby-Nuts2]

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the comments...generic could be the way .

Colin ...all monies will be donated....absolutely no profit at all ..ALL PROCEEDS

Remember Carl's diorama

Hope to get some more replays

Nap

View attachment 194402

Carls diorama, has just stopped me in my tracks!!!! How powerful is this!? ... I have very few words that could do this scene justice.

High Regards,

Mark

 

[Dan Morton]

On this forum and at shows I've heard every range of opinion from, "...get over yourself, it's just a hobby..." to that word ART being used to describe a diorama or vignette that is moving and evocative.

My little suggestion would be just a two figure vignette of a GI or a Soviet soldier carrying a holocaust victim through the gate of a camp. I suggest keeping it as simple as possible, only the two figures, the gate with barbed wire fence either side and the camp sign.

Don't expect everyone to agree with you and be ready for the first viewer that takes grievous offense. I was always taught that art shouldn't set out to offend but equally it shouldn't strive to make people comfy.

All the best,
Dan

 

[Rich Sculpts]

A tough subject to get right, even the major Jewish monuments are understated and handled sensitively. Better to tell the story by suggestion rather than through drama. When this subject comes up I always thinks of this diorama (Rick Lawler’s “Burden Of Sorrow”) Putty & Paint

In some ways he could have left the figure off and the work would still have had the same impact...

 

[Ferris]

If you want to be safe I'd suggest to check the opinion of the museum you intend to donate to.

It would be odd if the intended figure causes controversy when SS men are churned out all the time with little noise, but then again you never know how emotions develop.

Adrian

 

[Helm]

That was the other one Rich couldn't recall the name
Steve

 

[T-34/85]

I was privileged to view Rick Lawler's diorama in person at the AMPS international convention in Auburn back in 2012. If memeory serves, it took peoples choice and most certainly a gold. It also drew a silent crowd when viewed, no words were necessary. I support your intentions as there are countless horrific events thoughout history that should be remembered, if only to remind us that we have a duty not to forget them.

Tom

 

[Martin64]

IMHO it`s not the problem to portray a victim of these crimes but the situation he is into that you suggest by the scene / depiction might be the difficulty. A SS soldier mistreating a victim would obviously not be welcomed as a model. A victim being used as a "canvas" for a message can be made a victim another time - that`s why memorials regularly do not depict "real" situations / people in detail in difference to our models. In general "horrors" translated into models are a very demanding task. The scenes shown above prove in my eyes that it is still possible.
Good luck!
Martin

 

[Colin_Fraser]

That is very generous Carl. I hope you at keast get a tax deduction re donating your costs.....sorry.....In my prior life I was an accountant :-(

Colin

Oops....sorry. I meant Kev....obviously.

 

[Huw63]

This is actually a mind blowing thread. As some have commented art is not always here to make people feel comfortable but to challenge and make people think. So something. Showing goodness in the face of tyranny would be the direction I'd go.

Just a muse from me.

Cheers

Huw

 

[brian]

I don't see any wrong in it at all,quite the reverse,as is demonstrated with the 2 pictures in this post.Good luck in your venture.
Brian

 

[Hugo Pereira]

Hello Mr. Kevin...

This is a sensitive tema... I a few days ago, I have the chance to visit Auscwitz... And I dont have words to describe what I feel... To tell you the true, I dont know what I feel... I feel strange, very strange... I already saw many things in my life, but this is different... Auscwitz is a place were there are many people resting... People lifes who end in a horrible way...

When I arrive to Birkenau, and saw the train line... And the guide told us the final of the road there are the Gas Chamber N3 and N4 and in right is the Gas Chamber N1 and N2... The people arrives in a train, most of the time, in a few days trips, without any stops, and then they came out of the train, and in 20 minutes everthing is done... People who goes to gas chambers, go to the end of the road... They take out the clothes, nad 30 minutes later... The death come... I can image the agonie and suffering of those persons... Its impossible to describe...

And the histories... The histories... What can i say... There are some of them that out some minds completely cruise...

One guy, the ZoerCommnad, ist a jewish guy that work to Nazis... and the guys that work in the gas chambers are separated of all prisioniers, because the germans want to do everthing in secret... One of this ZoerCommand saw is cousin arrive to Birkenau, we saw the cousin went to the gas chamber, and he have to cut the hair of the cousin body, and put him in the crematory... How this is possible? How?

There are a music band in the gates of Auscwitz near the famous phrase, "Arbeit macht frei" (The work makes you free), and this band have to play happy music... How I can play happy music in the middle of those suffering and death? And one of the musicans, play violin, and he survive... He told, he palyed violin with the eyes closed, and crying, but he didnt want to see the faces of people coming in, and coming out...


How can the human mind work with so strange way? We never will have answers.... But I feel the obligation to tell my soon whats happend there... And in my opinion, of course, we can never forget whats happend... Because the Human History will be repeated in some way... And we can allow this sad history happen again... He have to talk about this measure, because we have to "Honor the dead by serving the living"...

Thank you.

 

[Colin_Fraser]

A great post Hugo. Everyone should have the exerience of visiting such a place, including our politicians. I have read a lot of WWII history, including stories about the Holocaust, but I am sure nothing can compare to actually visiting a site.

Colin

 

[Hugo Pereira]

Hello Mr. Colin...

Thank you for your comment...