uniform reference Pegaso de Grouchy

[Ben-nl]

Hello,
Can someone help me for uniform reference for Manuel de Grouchy.
Danilo Carticci had painted it with golden lace, but I can only find uniform with silver lace and wearing his bicorne crosswise as shown on boxart.
Excuse me for my English.
Many thanks
Ben

 

[stoka karevic]

contact utent "gommolo"
he's a very important expert, pegaso historical referent !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
look this 3d http://www.planetfigure.com/threads/pegaso-models-april.48569/page-3#post-487646

 

[gommolo]

Hi, the Horace Vernet portrait of Grouchy show Emmanuel with silver lace. The planche I attach (from Grimaldi), show a golden lace version. Remember that Grouchy was a Marechal and the Marechal has golden lace

 

[gommolo]

Sorry the planche

 

[gommolo]

Naturally, If you want, you can paint silver lace. No errors.

 

[stoka karevic]

silver or gold ??????this is the problem????
dear gommolo...This is the same thing!!!!
interesting theory

 

[gommolo]

Bicorn was worn in both ways

 

[gommolo]

silver or gold ??????this is the problem????
dear gommolo...This is the same thing!!!!
interesting theory

General has silver lace (here Emmanuel was Colonel General of Chasseurs of the Guard). Marechal has golden lace.

 

[Ben-nl]

Thanks both for discussion.
I try to remodelling the bicorne crosswise and the lace to paint in silver.
THANKS
Ben

 

[IIICorps]

Grouchy was not made a Marshal until Waterloo. In all likelihood, he may have never had the opportunity to wear marshal's lace.

 

[Martin64]

Grouchy was not made a Marshal until Waterloo. In all likelihood, he may have never had the opportunity to wear marshal's lace.

Grouchy was promoted to become a Marshal on the 17th of May 1815. The Battle of Waterloo took place on the 18th of June 1815. So it is reasonable to assume that there was a chance for him to sport marshal`s lace on his uniform.
Looking at Pegaso`s boxart the beautiful painted figure seems to have been placed in a winter surrounding. While the weather conditions at Waterloo and before were reported to be bad snow will not fit into the timespan when he was wearing marshal´s lace.
Hopefully this discrepancy will not stirr up the feelings of some (new) members any further
.... and just in case: I do not think of myself as an expert.


All the best, Martin

 

[BillR]

Unless there's a definitive primary source or Grouchy's uniform is hanging in a museum, it boils down to artistic preference. Admittedly, accuracy is more significant with a personality than an anonymous soldier, but the finished product is going to sit in your cabinet. I look forward to seeing how you bring it to life.

 

[Ben-nl]

Thanks both again for the discussion. I had done my question to Pegaso itself.
It is for important to paint the figures accuracy.
I let you know if I know more...

Ben

 

[John R Turner]

Definately silver lace. All of the chasseur a cheval regiments (except the 27th, which had a Belgian origin) had silver lace on a green uniform. I have seen a few versions of the original print on the right ( by Aubry?) and they show silver lace. There may be other versions though. De Grouchy's uniform dates from 1809, when he was a general, not a marshal.

While the rank of Colonel General was more than just ceremonial, with some administrative duties, I suspect de Grouchy would have worn either an ordinary general's uniform on service, or, for instance when he commanded a dragoon division, dragoon dress with general's lace. There is however a contemporary watercolour of Marshal Davout wearing his Colonel General of Grenadiers uniform, with cocked hat, at Hambourg in 1813.

De Grouchy lost his Colonel General's post during the Restoration, just prior to Waterloo.

 

[JGREEN]

Interesting thread. It's nice to see so many members willing to share their knowledge. As I may paint this figure in the future, I have another question regarding the uniform. If painted with silver lace, how would the sash then be painted? Same as the box-art, or different? Thanks in advance,

Jason

 

[John R Turner]

Hi Jason: I would paint the general's sash gold, not silver. From contemporary illustrations, it appears the other generals and marshals with silver lace - i.e. Poniatowski - still had gold sashes. There are many variations from the standard gold that had blue (brigade), red (division) or white (marshals and commanders in chief) showing through in broken stripes. Some sashes look to be just plain gold, at least seen from a distance, and I remember seeing one with a gold field and silver dots or spangles.

Regards, John

 

[gommolo]

A new planche.

 

[Piotrec]

A new planche.

This mounted piece in 75mm would probably outsell everything.

 

[Edorta]

Marco, thank you very much for your plates and references. All of them are very useful.

Military miniatures painted by Eduardo Garcia