What's the best way to make Gambions

[ChaosCossack]

Does anyone have any ideas on how to make convincing gambions (wicker basket barricades) in 54mm.
I'm back on my Borodino project and am concidering the scenic options.

Any thoughts?
Anyone?
Please?

Colin

 

[Wings5797]

Hi Colin,
I was going to make one up for my fusilier but historical correctness got in the way.
I planned, depending on your scale, to use wooden skewers (cocktail sticks for smaller scales).
Drill holes in to a piece of wood to form a rough circle to hold the skewers upright(ish). A little out of square will ad to the realism.
Then I thought to use varying thicknesses of plumbers hemp or sisal string woven through the up rights. The effect being more rustic than just using wire.
Then you can fill it with whatever putty you have. This will hold it all together, then with good luck and a fair wind you should be able to lift it out of your block and paint it up.
As I did not get too far with it you could be the designated test pilot.
Good Luck Mate.
Cheers,
Keith

 

[Richie]

Hi Colin,
I suppose you could use some cut down wooden cocktail sticks or barbecue skewers, implant these in some foam etc to keep them upright and then weave some 1mm diameter or slightly thinner copper wire conductors around these. Then fill with your required earth/sand/rubble!
cheers
Richie

 

[Mark S]

Colin, I'd approach this particular exercise with toothpicks and woven wire of suitable gauge, and then fill them with sand/gravel mixed with equal parts of pva glue and cream of tartar.

 

[valiant]

Hi Colin,
just looked on El Greco's website - they've got 54mm scale gabions on there - maybe would save you the bother?!
Steve

 

[Helm]

Shame on you Steve taking all the fun out of it

Steve

 

[Einion]

Not sure if you've seen this old print showing gabions being made by zouaves Colin, thought it might be good inspiration:

As in Keith's post I'd start by drilling holes in a piece of ply or something like that to hold the uprights in place during the forming, also means you can production-line them if you want to make up a few.

I'd use thicker wire for the uprights, bent here and there to give it some character, but some sticks or twigs from the garden could work well if you can find something suitable. You can use a natural material for the woven stuff too but it's hard to find something fine enough for 1/32 scale so I'd probably go with wire of a suitable gauge; kink it as much as you like to give it more character and deliberately go for some irregularity in the spacing of each loop. If these were ever made with rope for the weaving then thick thread could be used.

My filling mix would be builders' sand, Polyfilla and PVA, tinted with acrylic paint.

This is basically the technique from back in Stan Catchpole's day.

...equal parts of pva glue and cream of tartar.

I'm curious, what's the cream of tartar for?

Einion

 

[Wings5797]

Hi Enion
Really great print my friend. I like that a lot.
I think that the cream of tartar is only for use once the process is up and running and you are cooking on gas
Cheers,
Keith

 

[bwildfong]

Hey Colin!

Not to quash your industriousness at wanting to scratchbuild them, but Armand Bayardi also makes both full http://www.armandbayardi.com/brd/Detail-M54-046.htm and half gabions http://www.armandbayardi.com/brd/Detail-M54-047.htm

Cheers dude!

Brian

 

[Mirofsoft]

Hello
I have seen the Bayardi stuff, they look a bit to "mathematic"
and this is cream of tartar

or ( not a joke )

Potassium bitartrate​

Other names[hide]​

potassium hydrogen tartrate
cream of tartar
potassium acid tartrate
monopotassium tartrate​

Identifiers​

CAS number 868-14-4

PubChem 23666342
ATC code A12BA03
Jmol-3D images Image 1
SMILES
[show]

• C(C(C(=O)[O-])O)(C(=O)O)O.[K+]
  
  
  

InChI
[show]

• InChI=1S/C4H6O6.K/c5-1(3(7)8)2(6)4(9)10;/h1-2,5-6H,(H,7,8)(H,9, 10);/q;+1/p-1

Properties​

Molecular formula KC4H5O6
Molar mass 188.177
Appearance white crystalline powder
Density 1.05 g/cm3 (solid)
Solubility soluble in acid, alkali
insoluble in acetic acid, alcohol
Refractive index (nD) 1.511

(verify) (what is:

/

?)
Except where noted otherwise, data are given for materials in their standard state (at 25 °C, 100 kPa)​

Infobox references​

Potassium bitartrate, also known as potassium hydrogen tartrate, has formula KC4H5O6, is a byproduct of winemaking. In cooking it is known as cream of tartar

 

[Wings5797]

Great stuff Michel, you must have a Phd in cooking to Michelin 3 Star standard?
What will this add to the making of the Gabions?
Cheers
Keith

 

[Einion]

I should have been more specific: what's the cream of tartar for in this mix



Coincidentally I happen to have some of the Dr. Oetker stuff in my cupboard.

Einion

 

[Wings5797]

Coincidentally I happen to have some of the Dr. Oetker stuff in my cupboard.

Einion

What do you use it for Mate?
I am really getting interested in this stuff, not only for it's culinary prowess but also the modeling impact.

All the very best,
Keith

 

[Mark S]

Most of my groundwork contains a cream of tartar/PVA mix, but not all.

Here are some,

The first pic, as dry desert ground, it's mixed with sand/gravel, the second pic, as sodden mud, it's mixed with dried oregano and rootlets and in the third pic, as snow, it's simply as it's mixed with some extra cream of tartar sprinkled over the top.It has a bit of a sparkle as well.That snow is about 15 years old and it hasn't discoloured.

Give it a go before taking the piss out of it. Grab the stuff in your cupboard Enion and give it a go, you might learn something.

 

[Wings5797]

Most of my groundwork contains a cream of tartar/PVA mix, but not all.

Here are some,

Give it a go before taking the piss out of it. Grab the stuff in your cupboard Enion and give it a go, you might learn something.

Hi Mark,
Trust me I am truly interested in the use of cream of tartar in ground work.
I am sorry that you that you think other wise Mate.
Your ground work in the photos looks good using this stuff.
Cheers,
Keith

 

[Helm]

Like Keith Mark I'm curious what you use it for is it texture or workability or what ?

Steve

 

[Mark S]

Steve, I'd say both those reasons. In cooking it's used to stablise whipped cream, making icing mortar for ginger bread houses etc. that sort of thing. The same properties are good for groundwork I reckon.
It's collected from the bottom of empty wine barrels. I've had to get through dozens of wine barrels in my time to get enough...It's been tough but worth it!
Anyway it's cheap, easy to get, easy to use and I'm the sort of person that likes cheap and easy.
Give it a go and see what you think, it may not be for everyone but it works well for me.

 

[Helm]

Good stuff Mark I'm currently using some amazing stuff called One Strike here in the UK it's weird stuff comes in a big tub that feels empty as it's so light it's like polyfilla but smoother and easier to work http://www.nextdaydiy.com/building-materials-c50/fillers-c53/everbuild-one-strike-filler-pp200, I shall grab some of this and see how they mix if at all and report back

Steve

 

[Mark S]

Ok Steve, just one more point, Cream of Tartar is used to make childrens playdough as well because of it's properties and because it's a natural product.

Sorry for taking over your thread here Colin. I had to explain my suggestion, so I'll shut up now and allow the discussion to get back to those gambions.....Cheers.

 

[ChaosCossack]

Thanx Guys... these are some great ideas. I think I might have to try a couple of the different ideas and see what I can make work.
Or I'll try to find the cats in Einion's print and hire them to make me some
Buying them would suit me just fine but if you check the "Insanity?" thread I think I mentioned something about abject poverty otherwise known as "forced scratch building"
And Mark, don't ever apologize for helping... The explanation was kinda needed... I too thought you were having a giggle when I read the first mention of Cream of Tartar. I've never seen the product over here and couldn't make the connection in this context. I'll have to take a closer look at the grocery store or make a trip to a Marks and Sparks to try and find it.

BTW... gabions or gambions? Perhaps I can learn two things today

Colin