Jo Sonja paint question ?

petebali · Sep 3, 2011

I premiered my fig with white and after that dried for a day I started to paint flesh with Jo Sonja paint, It was covering like I expected but when I went to put another base layer *down ( one hour latter) I noticed the previous layer was coming off the high points of the mini. So set it aside and I figured that it wasn't dry enough. The next day I tried again ( this time three hours between layers) only to have it happen all over again. *How long should I wait between layers? If it matters I primed with GW Skull white as it was what I had. I didn't have this problem with the first mini I painted because I started with GW paint and finished with Jo Sonja. Is it necessary to under coat *with a hobby paint?

*
Thanks everyone for helping.*
Pete

Jamie Stokes · Sep 3, 2011

Hi Pete.
Welcome to the learning curve. Most of us prime our figures, although the choice of primer varies.

Before I even think of priming a figure, I wash it down with warm soapy water, rinse, then let air dry. Hopefully you have done this. GW white is an okay under coat, however it doesn't always work.for everyone as a primer.

I give my primer coat (vallejo grey primer - applied with an airbrush in multiple thin coats) about 24 hours to cure. This can be sped up with a hair dryer, too.

Hth

Ps, are you handling the figure directly, or do you have it on a 'working' base?

petebali · Sep 4, 2011

Thanks Jamie,
I have the bust on the cap off a spray paint can, I think actually from the skull white. I have it stuck with blue tack. The paint wont even cover the area I think it's a water oil can't mix thing. Come to think of it the skull whit came out like a kind of powder, the can was all most empty. I may just give it the old easy off reset.:thumb down:
Pete

housecarl · Sep 4, 2011

I use automotive primer thinned with cellulose, that holds on to the resin really well. The main reason I won't paint white metal figures, is I always have issues with the paint staying where I put it.
Carl.

kathrynloch · Sep 4, 2011

Skull white isn't a primer - it's actually paint.

Jo Sonja paint has a lower pigment value than higher quality acrylics. So between the two you're going to have fits.

For primers, I like Tamiya Fine Spray Primer, but right now you can't get it in the States, so I've been using Vallejo Spray Primer. In the automotive primers I love Duplicolor Sandable Primer - I've never seen an automotive primer go on so light yet cover so well, but this stuff is great!

Low pigment acrylics do have their uses once you become familiar with how they lay down and what sort of color you're going to get. Sonja, Apple Barrel, and Folk Art are at the bottom when it comes to pigment.

Americana and Delta Creamcoat have the higher pigment values so those go on pretty well and are durable.

The next step up are brands like Liquitex and moving up in the acrylic food chain, Vallejo acrylics are my favorite. But I want to try some of the new Reaper Master Series ones soon.

So it's not only the quality of primer, but the quality of paint and it's pigment value that you need to consider.

Good luck with the painting!

Cheers,
Karrie

Showlen · Sep 4, 2011

Floquil primer works great for me. Recently I used gunze Mr. Surfacer 1000 (in the can) on a bust and it worked really well - but expensive. Very smooth to paint on, loved the results. I tried GW skull white, and no matter what, I always had the issue with the white powder. I did try their chaos black, but all that is is just black spray paint. Krylon paint, from Wal-Mart, for like 4$ works better than GW. I find that warming any primer can in water gives you a much smoother coverage.

I'm learning to use oils for the face. I didn't like the initial results, but when I applied a base coat with Vallejo or Andrea, the oils worked great for me! I was able to do with oils what I've yet to learn to do with acrylics (good blending, smooth transitions etc.). I'm very new to this hobby and I'm at the stage where I'm stripping minis, over and over, trying different things.

Ronnie W.

Einion · Sep 5, 2011

One thing I wasn't clear on initially Pete was whether the paint was coming off from handling (which nearly any paint will, even really good primers can wear through) or just from the brushing on of the next coat of paint.

If you get paint being worn away just from the next coat being applied then there's definitely something up with what you've used to prime - usually it's because the paint/primer is too smooth.

Lots of previous threads on priming if you want to read a range of opinions.

kathrynloch said:
Skull white isn't a primer - it's actually paint.

QFE

But have to disagree with your assessment of JS as being like Apple Barrel & Folk Art Karrie. There's just no comparison between JS and regular craft paint in some colour areas (including Americana, Delta Ceramcoat, DecoArt, Michael's house brand and the Blick matt acrylics), especially since you can choose cadmium yellows and reds, in comparison to generic yellows and reds, almost all of which are really frustratingly low in coverage.

Einion

kathrynloch · Sep 6, 2011

Einion said:
But have to disagree with your assessment of JS as being like Apple Barrel & Folk Art Karrie. There's just no comparison between JS and regular craft paint in some colour areas (including Americana, Delta Ceramcoat, DecoArt, Michael's house brand and the Blick matt acrylics), especially since you can choose cadmium yellows and reds, in comparison to generic yellows and reds, almost all of which are really frustratingly low in coverage.

Einion

My apologies, let me clarify my previous statement. The Jo Sonia colors that I have tried have been low pigment value. Maybe it was just the colors I selected, it's been awhile back and I don't remember exactly which ones they were, but they were enough that I didn't buy any more. Maybe I just picked the wrong ones. They were also on sale so who knows how old they were.

Einion · Sep 6, 2011

Well they might have revised the paint once or twice since then if this was a while ago, some ranges are tweaked in some way every couple/three years. Chroma have changed the colour range and the packaging for JS since I first started using them.

The JS paints are now labelled as artists' paints, and the difference between them and craft paints shows in a number of areas, including smoothness, consistency and pigmentation.

Not all regular craft paints are weak by any means, the earth colours, white and black for example can be pretty darned good, because all those pigments are cheap they can include a fair amount and still keep to their price point. So they're definitely worth trying, e.g for groundwork, compared to one of the hobby-paint lines which are relatively a lot more expensive (much less than half the amount at best, often for double the price).

Einion

Meehan34 · Sep 6, 2011

I use JS on all my figures and every so often the same thing happens to me. It is usually when I have applied the base coat with thicker paint. If I thin it down a little more and use thinner coats it works better. I have never had a problem with their quality and many great artists use JS for their box art pieces.

petebali · Sep 7, 2011

Thanks all, for the input.
I ended up stripping the fig down and Re primered it with some Kylon grey primer and started again, as of now every thing is going great. I think it was probably a combination of primer going bad and high humidity here in SoCal add to that me just being new to Jo Sonjas paints. So now if any thing goes wrong, it's probably just me.

bunnie666 · Sep 7, 2011

I am just restarting figure painting myself, and understand your frustration. Primers come in all different potential colors and adhesion levels (some work better than other when it comes to not hiding the fine detail of a figure, and providing a robust foundation). Painting (airbrushing/rattle can) on rainy days will result in issues with adhesion and possible moisture. I am looking into the Jo Sonjas Artist paints. I really like the vibrant choice of colors (like some of those in Game Workshop's line).

Jo Sonja paint question ?

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