7th Cavalry Uniforms 1876

[Jim Patrick]

Looking for some good references for this figure from Andrea. This really isn't my cup of tea, so to speak, so any pointers I can get from the viewing public will be most appreciated. Both book and online will work for me.

I have already done a google search for this. While there were some decent pics, there just wasn't enough substance for me. Specifically I'm looking for details on the uniforms.

Jim Patrick

 

[captnenglish]

For starters avoid the whole yellow bandana thing, it wasn't unheard of, but it is really Hollywood. Which figure(s) specifically? That would help.

 

[Jim Patrick]

This figure:

http://www.andrea-miniatures.com/marketUsa/AspsProductos/Detalle.asp?IdProductoDetalle=1525

I also found some interesting links:

http://www.cooncreekoldwest.com/

http://www.wwmerc.com/cgi-bin/Category.cgi?category=home&type=store

http://www.9thcavalry.com/uniforms.htm

The last deals specifically with the 9th CAV but regulations are regulations. Granted, while on campaign, things were quite different. I guess the biggest thing I'm looking for are the pants, the pistol belt and the cartridges themselves.

Pants- Were they always grey on the riding/reinforced portion? Would a different material work here? ie. leather?

Pistol Belt- It seems as if the "cover" for the cartridges themselves appears to be a cloth like material. Would these cartridge covers/ammo holders also be black leather?

Cartridges- Would these be steel or brass?

Jim Patrick

 

[chippy]

That's a nice figure you have to start off with . Now the imformation I have is only from books I've read but it seems much of the uniforms for the Western troops was from the Civil War , so that's a good starting place , as far as the belt holding the cartridges canvas was popular in hotter areas as the heat made the leather sweat and the cartridges could get stuck in the belts ( not something you want to happen in the heat of battle ) as for the cartridges they would be made from brass and lead . So in the belt brass colour on top lead colour on the bottom . As for the reinforcing on the pants grey wool or leather is OK .
chippy

 

[captnenglish]

Cartridges were brass. I will check my references, but I am pretty sure that the reinfrocing would have been leather. I check also on the belt.

 

[Dan Morton]

This is an illustration by J. S. Hutchins...thought it might be helpful.

In the text, all the colors are brighter. My scanner appears to wash out certain colors sometimes. Probably if I'd gone for a higher resolution save it would be closer, but then I'd have a image too large to post.

All the best,
Dan

 

[Jim Patrick]

Thanks Dan. No need to worry about colors. Details are what's important. Thanks again!

Jim Patrick

 

[renarts]

Jim, check some of the reenactor sites. While you'll have to wade through some farby bullshit, there are some that have nice event photos that will show some details that come from "use" and "field practicality". Those are the details that come in handy and are the most interesting. And many of the units will have some good photos of details that they use for uniform standards and to show off what the kit is supposed to be made up of.

 

[Jim Patrick]

Do you have any links?

Jim Patrick

 

[renarts]

http://imageevent.com/2ndcalcav
http://www.californiacavalry.us/
http://www.ushist.com/index.shtml
http://www.quartermastershop.com/1872_and_on_us_enlisted/indian_war_enlisted_uniforms.html
http://people.virginia.edu/~bed/
http://s269.photobucket.com/albums/jj73/2nd_US_Cavalry/
http://www.uscavalryschool.com/
http://www.uscavalryschool.com/photo_gallery.htm
http://2ndcavalryreenactors.org/index_files/Page507.htm
http://www.littlebighornreenactment.com/photo_gallery.htm
http://www.us7thcavcof.com/Equipment.html

Here are some to get you started. As things like this usually work, as you go through them, no doubt you'll find more info and the internet will just do its thing.

 

[Jim Patrick]

Thanks Mike!!!!!!

The last link was especially interesting.

Jim Patrick

 

[outrunthedogs]

Hi Jim
The cartridges would be brass, the seat of the pants were typically reinforced with canvas and the cartridge belt could be either leather or cloth.
P.S. check your PM!

 

[Michaelminiatures]

Jim,
My findings for you 7th Cavalry of the period 1876 are. Pants have a leather reinforcement at this peroid. In the early years late 1860's the troopers were reinforceing with canvas , but at this period the pants for the field were army issued with leather. I have a pair of the period. The Mills cartridge belt black leather, canvas loops. I also have one of these belts. The cartridges for the Springfield 45/70 carbine were copper case, at this period. Not much brass was use at the period. I have a belt with 30 or so cartridges of this period, they are copper cased. I also researched "Arming & and Equipping the U. S. Cavalry 1865-1902 by Dusan P Farrington.
Hope this helps,
Mike

 

[Steve]

Mike, I have to say that the copy of trousers you own must be either a unique field modification or an officer's private issue. From "The US Army in the West 1870-1880, pp63, illustration 47: "...Those for mounted men were to be made with an additional layer of kersey (wool cloth) on the seat and the inside of the legs. ...During the 1876 Sioux campaign according to lieutenant Edward S. Godfrey, many Seventh Cavalrymen lined the seats and legs of their trousers with white canvas from the knees up...". Steffen, Reedstrom, and McChristian all agree on this. Far as I know there was never an issue trousers with leather seat, at least before 1900. GREAT DISCUSSION

 

[Steve]

Also, the belt the figure is wearing is the 1880 pattern woven Mills belt. The "H" shaped buckle plate gives this away. The belt proper is entirely woven canvas. The field modifications done by the units themselves prior to the 1880 pattern getting to the troops often were the issue leather belt with added leather loops, and in some cases canvas loops. This was known as the "Fair Weather Christian Belt "(Dorsey, American Military Belts and Related Equipment pp68-69).The Seventh at Greasy Grass (Little Bighorn) wore the same belt issue during the Civil War with the above mentioned field modifications where they existed. There was an issue belt (m.1876 Cartidge Belt "Prairie Belt) of both leather and woven canvas (Dorsey pp69-70) but it reached the field after the Montana battle. GREAT DISCUSSION

 

[Michaelminiatures]

Steve,
Good info. I checked my pants ,they are NOT leather reinforced, they are reinforced with kersey blue and they are pattern 1885, (sorry I have Imperial German Cavalry on the brain) . Most of my sources read the 7th Cavalry did not use the belt on the figure they used a Dwyer pouch for cartridges. Do you find this also? I also have the belt with leather loops, Hagner 1872 pattern. I think the figure is sculpted with the 1876 pattern prairie belt. Cavalry photos from the period 1876 show a mix of belts and uniforms from the same troop?

 

[Steve]

Hi Mike. I know the cartridge box was used. Like most combat outfits whatever gets the job done was the order of the day. That is one of the reasons I like this subject, there are literally endless combinations of issue and non issue uniforms, current and out of issue weapons, as many hats as there were people. I appreciate your historical research.--

 

[Jim Patrick]

WOW! Where else but here at pF?! All of you guys have been VERY helpful.

Jim Patrick