Robert Merz
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A question about "flats" castings
- Thread starter Robert Merz
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Roy
A Fixture
Hello Robert...I don't know a great deal about flats but you can check out this link to find bundles of info concerning flat figures Flats Stuff.
As far as painting both sides, well that depends how you want to display it as some are displayed on a base just like a round figure. Although the trend seems to be to mount it in a picture frame or as you said a small shadow box, usually (for flats) with a translucent roof to as to cast a soft light onto the figure...
The figure that you show in your pic is almost certainly part of a large set produced by Madlener, and you will be surprised at the diversity of subjects available to flats collectors.
Happy hunting.
Roy.
As far as painting both sides, well that depends how you want to display it as some are displayed on a base just like a round figure. Although the trend seems to be to mount it in a picture frame or as you said a small shadow box, usually (for flats) with a translucent roof to as to cast a soft light onto the figure...
The figure that you show in your pic is almost certainly part of a large set produced by Madlener, and you will be surprised at the diversity of subjects available to flats collectors.
Happy hunting.
Roy.
Luis R.
A Fixture
Robert Merz
Well-Known Member
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- Messages
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Robert Merz
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Aug 30, 2004
- Messages
- 116
n/t
Robert Merz
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- Joined
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n/t
PJ Deluhery
A Fixture
Hi Robert,
Many flats are two sided. How you paint them depends on how you wish to display them.
The more traditional (I guess!) way to display them is in a frame or shadow box against a dark background with only one side showing. Another way to display is to mount it on a base (there are some bases designed especially for flats!) and paint both sides. Usually I do a little ground work on the base, and from a distance, it actually looks like a three dimentional figure.
This figure looks exceptional, and would certainly be worthy of a stand-up (two-sided) display if you are up to it! A little sand, a palm or other desert plant would turn this into an exceptional display, IMHO.
As a long-time flat painter, I have been intrigued by the many painting and display possibilities flats present to the artist. I am glad you find it interesting and I hope you enjoy this piece. Look at it this way - two figures for the price of one!!
Many flats are two sided. How you paint them depends on how you wish to display them.
The more traditional (I guess!) way to display them is in a frame or shadow box against a dark background with only one side showing. Another way to display is to mount it on a base (there are some bases designed especially for flats!) and paint both sides. Usually I do a little ground work on the base, and from a distance, it actually looks like a three dimentional figure.
This figure looks exceptional, and would certainly be worthy of a stand-up (two-sided) display if you are up to it! A little sand, a palm or other desert plant would turn this into an exceptional display, IMHO.
As a long-time flat painter, I have been intrigued by the many painting and display possibilities flats present to the artist. I am glad you find it interesting and I hope you enjoy this piece. Look at it this way - two figures for the price of one!!
Robert Merz
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geaugan
Well-Known Member
Bob:
Actually almost all flats are engraved into slate. In essence the engraver has to do a mirror image. The two halfs of the mold are then put together and tin (alloy) is poured into the mold. It's a one-at-a-time production process. You are correct that most flats come from Germany but there are now some very good Russian and British editors. I also suggest that you get a very simply designed flat with rather plain costuming to practice on. You have no idea how complex the light and shadows will be on a flat as complex as your elephant with crew.
Actually almost all flats are engraved into slate. In essence the engraver has to do a mirror image. The two halfs of the mold are then put together and tin (alloy) is poured into the mold. It's a one-at-a-time production process. You are correct that most flats come from Germany but there are now some very good Russian and British editors. I also suggest that you get a very simply designed flat with rather plain costuming to practice on. You have no idea how complex the light and shadows will be on a flat as complex as your elephant with crew.
Robert Merz
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Automata
Well-Known Member
Robert,
I think HM issues 39 and 40 are worth grabbing for a couple of very nice articles by Peter Ferk and Greg diFranco on painting flats. They have made me want to try a couple myself.
Barry
I think HM issues 39 and 40 are worth grabbing for a couple of very nice articles by Peter Ferk and Greg diFranco on painting flats. They have made me want to try a couple myself.
Barry
PJ Deluhery
A Fixture
Hi again, Robert,
You are right that flat painting is a bit different. The techniques used are more like painting on a canvas than on a 3-D figure. The articles cited above in HM are an excellent starting place. Di Franco is a master of the flat, so anything by him is worth a look.
Also, if you can get Mick Taylor's book on flats - "The Art of the Flat Tin Figure" ISBN #1-85915-070-5 - this is the bible on this subject, IMHO. The book has been out of print for a while but if you can find a copy in English it is worth whatever you have to pay.
Flats are a "whole 'nother thing." However, don't be put off. If the bug has bitten you, I really encourage you to pursue it. Your first efforts may not be show level quality, but you have to learn a different way of seeing and representing light and shapes. I think learning flats will make a better 3-D painter of you as well. The only way you will know how good you are or how much you will like it is to try one, and this one is as good as any. They're relatively cheap so if you are unhappy you have lost only your time - which you will recoup the benefits of on other work. Also, there are dealers in the USA that carry them. You'll find them at the MFCA and LI shows in the East, and I think Chicago too. So, to paraphrase the potao chip folks: "Paint all you want, we'll make more."
After all, we are here to have some fun, right? Nobody is looking over your shoulder while you are at your workbench!! Take a look at my slide show below - there are a few flats there. The hussar and the viking ship are examples of framed flats; the indian is mounted straight up and painted on both sides and has groundwork. Then do a little research to see how others are presented. Give it a try and see what its all about. If its not for you , that's ok too!
Last tip - if you decide you don't want to paint it, polish it, and put a black wash over it and let it seep into the low areas. Then, gently buff the raised areas and display it as is.
Good luck.
You are right that flat painting is a bit different. The techniques used are more like painting on a canvas than on a 3-D figure. The articles cited above in HM are an excellent starting place. Di Franco is a master of the flat, so anything by him is worth a look.
Also, if you can get Mick Taylor's book on flats - "The Art of the Flat Tin Figure" ISBN #1-85915-070-5 - this is the bible on this subject, IMHO. The book has been out of print for a while but if you can find a copy in English it is worth whatever you have to pay.
Flats are a "whole 'nother thing." However, don't be put off. If the bug has bitten you, I really encourage you to pursue it. Your first efforts may not be show level quality, but you have to learn a different way of seeing and representing light and shapes. I think learning flats will make a better 3-D painter of you as well. The only way you will know how good you are or how much you will like it is to try one, and this one is as good as any. They're relatively cheap so if you are unhappy you have lost only your time - which you will recoup the benefits of on other work. Also, there are dealers in the USA that carry them. You'll find them at the MFCA and LI shows in the East, and I think Chicago too. So, to paraphrase the potao chip folks: "Paint all you want, we'll make more."
After all, we are here to have some fun, right? Nobody is looking over your shoulder while you are at your workbench!! Take a look at my slide show below - there are a few flats there. The hussar and the viking ship are examples of framed flats; the indian is mounted straight up and painted on both sides and has groundwork. Then do a little research to see how others are presented. Give it a try and see what its all about. If its not for you , that's ok too!
Last tip - if you decide you don't want to paint it, polish it, and put a black wash over it and let it seep into the low areas. Then, gently buff the raised areas and display it as is.
Good luck.
PJ Deluhery
A Fixture
I forgot. One more thing.
To mount a flat in a frame, get a piece of colored matt board, preferably black but use what you like. I get mine at Staples, and I like the "foam sandwich" kind. Cut the matt board to fit the frame - you can good frames at WalMart!! Then, position your flat in the frame. Cut a slit in the matt board just large enough for the back portion of the flat's "stand" to slip into the slit in the board. If you do it right, no glue is needed; otherwise you may need to glue it to keep it in place.
There are other methods of mounting a flat, but this is the easiest. It is best to do this BEFORE you paint it, so you don't ruin your work. Also, I often cut off the front portion of "stand" (so that it does not stick out) and this is a bit tricky if the piece is painted.
Again, good luck and stay in touch here.
To mount a flat in a frame, get a piece of colored matt board, preferably black but use what you like. I get mine at Staples, and I like the "foam sandwich" kind. Cut the matt board to fit the frame - you can good frames at WalMart!! Then, position your flat in the frame. Cut a slit in the matt board just large enough for the back portion of the flat's "stand" to slip into the slit in the board. If you do it right, no glue is needed; otherwise you may need to glue it to keep it in place.
There are other methods of mounting a flat, but this is the easiest. It is best to do this BEFORE you paint it, so you don't ruin your work. Also, I often cut off the front portion of "stand" (so that it does not stick out) and this is a bit tricky if the piece is painted.
Again, good luck and stay in touch here.
Robert Merz
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Roy
A Fixture
Hi Robert...A friend of mine orders a lot of Quadri-Concept flats from Chuck at the red lancers...they (Quadri-Concept) do a very nice range, and maybe Chuck stocks other rangers too, I think he used to stock some Segom, maybe he has some still.
All the best.
Roy.
All the best.
Roy.
Guy
A Fixture
My avatar is a Metal Models Flat that is available through Red Lancer and might be a good size to start on. They have a pretty good selection of flat/bust on his website.
http://www.redlancers.com/minilistout.asp?...&mfg=366&page=7
http://www.redlancers.com/minilistout.asp?...&mfg=366&page=7
These are rather large and gave me some good practice before going back to some smaller flats I already had.
http://www.redlancers.com/minilistout.asp?...&mfg=366&page=7
http://www.redlancers.com/minilistout.asp?...&mfg=366&page=7
These are rather large and gave me some good practice before going back to some smaller flats I already had.
PJ Deluhery
A Fixture
I'm glad you are intrigued. I have to say that flats have been a long-time passion with me since I got my first set of toy flats, and then saw the artistic possibilities in Di Franco's work at LI and Mick Taylor's work at MFCA. Some people don't like them, but to me they are fascinating. And since I can't draw a stroke, this is as close as I will ever get to "fine art" painting. One other thing, you can purchase some very interesting "close renditions" of the great works of art in flats, especially in Napoleonics. You can go mano-a-mano with the great artists, if you like - and hide the results as I sometimes do!!
I have purchased from Chuck at Red Lancers - he's great - and over the internet in Germany. My main source for years has been Carl Gruen. He does not do much mail order, but you can find him at MFCA and the Long Island (NY) shows. This probably does not help you if you do not come to these shows. Carl has and excellent selection and has a broad range of subject matter including fairy tales and mythology. Great for gifts!
If you google "Zinnfiguren" you can find all sorts of places. I have not ordered from these folks below, but they seem reputable.
Hoffman
Arquebus has an excellent site and sells both painted and unpainted flats. I have succomed to some of their painted sets - painted in China - and a few unpainted sets (some still unpainted!). Excellent folks to do business with:
Arquebus
Guy - I THOUGHT your avatar was a flat - very nice! There are some great native American subjects in flats.
One more thought - flats come in many different sizes. 30mm are most common but I have some much larger - like 200mm. The bigger ones may be easier to paint, but require showing more detail.
I have purchased from Chuck at Red Lancers - he's great - and over the internet in Germany. My main source for years has been Carl Gruen. He does not do much mail order, but you can find him at MFCA and the Long Island (NY) shows. This probably does not help you if you do not come to these shows. Carl has and excellent selection and has a broad range of subject matter including fairy tales and mythology. Great for gifts!
If you google "Zinnfiguren" you can find all sorts of places. I have not ordered from these folks below, but they seem reputable.
Hoffman
Arquebus has an excellent site and sells both painted and unpainted flats. I have succomed to some of their painted sets - painted in China - and a few unpainted sets (some still unpainted!). Excellent folks to do business with:
Arquebus
Guy - I THOUGHT your avatar was a flat - very nice! There are some great native American subjects in flats.
One more thought - flats come in many different sizes. 30mm are most common but I have some much larger - like 200mm. The bigger ones may be easier to paint, but require showing more detail.
Figure Mad
A Fixture
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- 1,789
Hi Robert
Just a a matter of interest, Roy produces a few flats through his Roy Hunt Miniatures, but these are a little different from other manufacturers... you should ask him about them, they are very nice flats indeed.
Dave
Just a a matter of interest, Roy produces a few flats through his Roy Hunt Miniatures, but these are a little different from other manufacturers... you should ask him about them, they are very nice flats indeed.
Dave
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