acrylic technic question

[Pete Wenman]

Guys hi

Still getting to gripes with acrylics (Andrea).

I've got the basics pretty well sorted and fully understand the theory, however
I'm encountering a few problems woth my current figure.

When laying glazes (highly diluted) over the boundry between shades of the same base colour I'm getting something I can best describe as a cross between a brush mark and an evaporation stain.

Its like areas of the glazed area didn't receive any paint when the glaze was laid on. Am I thinning the paint two much ? or doing something else wrong.

From my aircraft modeling I know that a paint scheme can be blended by gloss coating and then flating coating the model (with an airbrush) and wonder if this might solve the problem.

For those of you that work in acrylic what is the last step you take to blend a colour on a model ? (I mean here do you lay down an overall glaze or something like this )

Hope this all makes sense

Pete

 

[Jim Hockett]

Hi Pete,

Not quite sure from your explanation, but there might be a couple of things going on. First, if you have shading that is needing a lot of blending, you might try laying in some intermediate shading, rather than trying to do glazes. When I do use a glaze, I thin the paint a lot, load the brush, and then wipe it on a towel. This allows you to apply a very even layer of color. It may take several applications to build up, but this technique gives me the most control. It is better to have to use several coats than to muddy up the shading.
Hope my ramblings may be of somme assistance, and I'm sure others have more help to offer.


Jim

 

[Brad S]

Pete,

I'm not quite sure what you mean also, but I agree with Jim. Your glaze might be too diluted down, but it is still better (I believe) to apply several light glazes than to apply one real heavy one. You may not even be able to see any difference for the first couple of applications. I prefer to be more diluted than not enough. That is why it takes me just as long to finish a figure as an oil guy. Hope this helps.

Brad Spelts

 

[Pete Wenman]

Guys thanks for the answers.

As I was aware my description of the problem was not that good :lol:

I have a couple of photos showing the problem

close up

this shows the problem with the glazed area being very uneven in coverage.

Pete

 

[Anders Heintz]

I would also say that it is a tad dilluted, but could also be some other reason. One could be the paint is not properly 'broke up' into the water, sometimes the paint tends to bead up a little and not get completely 'disolved' in the paint causing it to streak as there are different amount of pigment in the wash. When I blend large scale faces I usually mix the highlight color #1 and #2 together to get a middtone which is painted inbetween the twho highlights, then if the border is still rough, a very thin transparent filtr is applied, but only over that specific area and those two specific colors. That way even if it streaks a little bit it works. I never use a filter of the same color to paint over the entire piece as there are so many different colors on the figure that one color usually does not work, as it leaves either dark stains on the highlights or as in your case light on the shadows. Try blending the edges with a blend of the two colors that you are using, then if needed a filter of the same mix to fade the borders instead of a general filter. Repeat this step with every color and you should get smooth transitions!

Another thing that may play a part, what do you use to dillute your paint with? I always use distilled water mixed with rubbing alcohol to break the surface tension (I think anyways, maybe its because my taste for vodka...:lol. I have also heard of people using a little tad of dish washing soap added to the mixing water to aid in mixing.

 

[Einion]

Hi Pete, thanks for the photo, helps a lot in interpreting what you're experiencing. One of the first things I wondered is what size brush are you using? Some problems are encountered when a brush that's really a little small for the job is being used - I would probably paint the bulk of this with a #4 as a guide.

I haven't used Andrea's paints but in general with acrylic and vinyl paints over-thinning is not much of a problem in itself - I literally use acrylics thinned to the level of dirty water to do very subtle touches and have done for decades - it's mostly in how the paint is then applied that issues might arise. If you use a smaller brush there is a tendency to load it a little more heavily so that the work goes at a suitable clip; if this is the case you might be having trouble with the paint drying as a sort of puddle in its own right, causing an effect like coffee dried on a counter where the edges form rings?

If you have a good absorbent primer, the paint is thinned just right and the brush loaded just so, your strokes should go on thin and flat and should almost dry as you're looking at them (with very light strokes literally as you're looking at them) which tends to avoid this problem. Depending on your brushes and how the paint takes this you might try doing the initial shading work with paint a little thicker than you think it should be, roughly like full-cream milk, then move to heavier dilutions for more subtle transitions on top of this and see how you get on.

Einion

 

[gilbertmoreno]

Hey Pete,
It seems you are having the same kinds of problems I was having.
Here are some suggestions for painting with Andrea paints:
1. I never use anything but distilled water with these paints, I used to add rubbing alcohol but this seemed to cause it to dry shiny or with flat and shiny spots.
2. If you want to use the glazing method to get your layers, after you mix your paint you need to let it set a liitle bit. I have found that when this paint is thinned down very thin the pigment and the stuff that makes it flat seperate. I believe the white streaking you are seeing on your model is the flattening agent and pigment that has seperated. A way around this is to let the mixed paint set awhile to let the pigment come to the top and let the flattner settle at the bottom. This of course is if you are using some type of pallete with wells in it. If you try to remix it once its been thinned down like this, it doesn't!
If not I would use the other method suggested by one of the other replies, which is to mix the highlights and shades using the paint not quite so thinned down. use just enough distilled water to make it fluid.
This is the method I use now, it seems easier than using glazes to me.
3. If you are usng the glazing method, after you let the paint seperate in the well
don't dip your brush all the way down to the bottom or else ugh! ugly white streaks!
4. Andrea paints in my opinion are the best when it comes to painting clothing, just be sure to keep your transitions subtle.
Hope this helps
Regards,
Gilbert

 

[gilbertmoreno]

heres a fig painted with Andreas
Gilbert

 

[Pete Wenman]

Guys thanks for the replys, more so for the amount of thought that went into them.

I think I have the problem sorted, in the main due to the various solutions suggested.

First up Anders mentioned the scale of the figure, and I have to admit I was painting the 90mm figure in the same way i would tackle a 1/35th figure.

Well guess what - the technic needs to be altered to match the size of the figure. Obvious, but something I didn't consider until Anders mentioned it :lol:

I also was not putting down enough layers of glaze (again I suspect because I expected what worked on a small figure to work here).

I guess I was also being lazy in trying to glaze large areas in one go, rather than tone down each colour gradient in turn.

Overall the answer seems to be (as Einion suggested) layer down more thicker layers to build up the rough colour graduation, before carefully using washes to merge the edges of each colour together.

Thats the plan, more photos to follow as progress is made

Pete

PS Gilbert nice looking Gandalf there, any chance of larger photos, as I would love to see them

 

[Automata]

I agree with Gilbert. It looks like you are having problems with Andrea's flattening agent. The first time I used Andrea for a dark blue, I was shocked by the powdery looking streaks that appeared. I thought it was my tap water contaminating the paint brushes when I cleaned them. But after trying some washes on black drawing paper to compare Andrea, Jo Sonja and Vallejo, I noticed that only the Andrea dark colors dried to a very light gray.

One thing you can try is to use Jo Sonjas for your highlighting since they are dead flat. I have not had good luck with them for solid coats since most colors are not nearly as opaque as Vallejo or Andrea, despite the fact that some claim they're just as good or the same only cheaper. They are good for thin glazes, though. Even Vallejo's dark blues will go down pretty flat in thinned glazes over Andrea since the undercoat is already so "rough".

I'm going to try Gilbert's suggestion of letting the flattening agent settle. Thanks for the tip Gilbert!

Barry

 

[Arminous]

Hi all!

I'll have to aggre with Gilbert,too!However,I have some things to add.This problem is not only with Andrea colors,but with all acrylics in general.

Some suggestions to avoid this effect:


1-The colors should be thinned only in distiled water!NO ALCOHOL!!!Its changes the synthesis of the color.Perfect for cleaning your blush,though

2-The color should be well thinned in the thinner!

3-The brush should be cleaned well after EACH coat applied!In this point you have to clean your blush with alcohol,so that you avoid rethinning in your painting mix old color stuck on your brush.ATTENTION!!!Even if your brush seems clean enough,there may be old color stuck in the metal part of your brush,so that you cannot notice it.That's why you have to use alcohol,which will lyse even this color left.

4-Unload VERY WELL your brush on a cloth made of cotton,so that only a small quantity of color remains on your brush after each load.This way,you avoid unthinned color to reamain on the brush and pass to the painted area.If you see no difference after applying the coat,try again,but do not change the thickness of your painting mix.When painting with acrylics,the mix should have the denseness of milk.

5-Come smoothly to the last highlight,applying more than 30 layers of color.This way,even if this effect still appears,it will be unnoticable,since the previous layers will hide the difference.

6-When applying the coat on the painted area touch the area very smoothly with the top of your brush.Do not push the brush on the figure,even if you find out that you need to add a greater quantity of color.Just repeat until you get the desired result

7-Do not forget 1,2,3,4,5 and 6

I hope I helped
Cheerz!

 

[RobertC33]

5-Come smoothly to the last highlight,applying more than 30 layers of color.

Arminous,
I am still exploring and trying to learn how to use Acrylic.
Correct me if I am wrong, do you mean it usally takes more than 30 layers of color to finish a figure?

Do you guys have problems with certain Andrea colors which are sticky or kind of dry in the bottle? Is there any liquid or media that you may add to this?

Robert

 

[Calvin]

Pete, it's just my opinion, but for what I see on many figures (most of them from the Spanish's school, one of the best example of 'veladuras' - transparency, glazing, layering of whatever you want to call it), that technique works well on 54mm scale, not for the biggest.

To achieve a good result, aside using only water and shaking very well the colour, you must apply up to 10/15 layers of very thinned paint. But on scales over the 54mm, you will always see the brushstrokes.

Acrylics are not oils, and cannot be blended to obtain the same result. do not rely on what you see on the web or on the box art, the digital picture processing is a (treacherous) world, with a couple of mouse click your figure can look better than a Caravaggio's paint, try to take a look at flesh and blood pieces. Also, most of pictures of figures (over 54mm) published on well known books highlights such brushstrokes, sometimes used in an intentional way.

Luca

 

[Figure Mad]

Hi Pete

Just a question which colours have you used to mix with the black/blue to give you the shadows and highlihts? as this may be the problems as some pigments can be a little powdery even when diluted to paint with...

It might be time to get the airbrush out, just for the basic shading at this scale.

Will you be at Gravesham and the 22nd Oct, maybe I can see the finished result

Dave