Advice re: metal figure prep and manufacturers

[Robert Merz]

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[diosytexas]

hello robert. it sounds like you have got your self a goal. the way you are going to achieve it will bring results i'm sure. maybe you could play with the lesser quality kits as you go along and try new techniques on the painting and also a bit of sculpting. good luck with the plan above all remember that it's supposed to be fun (even when it goes wrong. dave.

 

[nagashino]

Hello Robert

Well, I don't pretend I can deal with all your questions, but I can say that the figure manufacturers you mention are all renowned for their attention to detail and their quality castings. I have produced my best work using Pegaso and Metale Modeles figures. I have also done a few Soldiers pieces, and they too, are top class.

I would urge a hint of caution however, as like me, you probably buy mail order, and it's occasionally a bit disappointing to find when the kit arrives, it isn't as good as the box art would suggest. I know it's difficult to get a look at something before you commit your cash, so I would incline towards buying the products of those reputable manufacturers you have so far mentioned. I would also add Seil Model from Korea who are producing some excellent stuff, and I'm sure Chuck at Red Lancers brings their lines into the US.

A useful resource for oil painting (if you don't already have it) is Bob Knee's publication on Colour Theory - that's one handy little book.

Your other great resource of course, is this forum . Boy, am I glad I joined it.

Good luck and enjoy!

Phil

 

[Luis R.]

Hi Robert,
the manufacturers you've mentioned usually market very good figures, with no "orange peel" at all. From those four, maybe Pegaso and Metal Models produce the best castings, but Andrea's ones are usually very good too. I cannot comment on Soldiers, as i've never bought anything from them. There are many more good manufacturers whose castings are as good as those from your chosen 4. If you want to stay away from poor castings, which is a wise thing to do, whenever you see a figure you would like to paint, ask here at the Planet about it. Be sure the planeteers who already have it will honestly comment about it's quality.

 

[Guy]

I agree with Luis'a advice. If you are thinking about a figure you are not familiar with......post the question here on the planet. There are still some manufacturers who run hot and cold as far as their quality. The above mentiined figures, Pegaso, Andrea, Seil I would not hesitate to buy from through the mail. Others you have to be careful with in metal castings.

 

[MSzwarc]

Robert,

I'm still quite a beginner, but I have had some experience modifying metal kits. I haven't had any problems being able to carve details into the metal. I've used Xacto blades and dental tools reground into small chisels and knives. It takes a little care, but it is possible to achieve good results.

The Pegaso kits I have have a high level of detail, especially the larger kits, and the detail is usually quite clear. Metal Models and Poste Militaire seem to me to have a smoother casting surface and better parts fit than others. The Andrea kits I have are variable. Some have clear detail and good fit, while others have a poorer fit and rougher surface, as well as more pronounced seams.

I'm trying to get back into figure modeling after an 8 month hiatus, and your post gave me a lot of food for thought. Thanks.

Mike

 

[Einion]

Originally posted by Robert Merz+Oct 6 2005, 02:48 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Robert Merz @ Oct 6 2005, 02:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Well, I finally had my epiphany... I now understand why the best of our hobby do spend $50 to $100 (or more) for kits… quality. [/b]

Many of us would agree with you on this. You can make something good from a kit that is just okay - painting 'up' as it's sometimes called - but real quality shows and, as you've pointed out, takes a lot less effort on the modeller's part to reach a certain standard. With poorer stuff, quite frankly I think it's best left to someone with less discernment.

Do be aware though that cost and a beautiful boxart picture are not a guarantee of quality - you'll get lemons from virtually every maker. In white metal it's actually quite common for the mould to wear and not be replaced when it should, because of their cost, so that pitting and other surface flaws usually become evident over time - this is a prime reason that many miniaturists vow to get a kit early or not at all.

Originally posted by Robert Merz@Oct 6 2005, 02:48 PM
I had always deluded myself into thinking that if a cheaper kit has a few flaws that I could correct them.... I would spend hour upon hour trying to make an acceptable fix... when I could have spent $20 or $30 more, and purchased a kit that did not need “fixing.”

This fixing/detailing/improving process is actually very valuable modelling experience so it wasn't wasted effort; you'll need it occasionally even building kits with a higher pricetag.

Originally posted by Robert Merz@Oct 6 2005, 02:48 PM
I want to learn to incorporate several of the styles I noted in its pages. I want to work towards flawless finishes. I want to work towards subtle color shifts and highlights. I want to produce 3 to 6 quality pieces per year... I want to make it art.

All worthy goals

Originally posted by Robert Merz@Oct 6 2005, 02:48 PM
...instead of hoarding 100 kits away. I would rather purchase maybe a dozen superior kits and give them the attention they deserve.

I agree with this myself and long ago stopped buying any kit that caught my eye but do bear in mind the 'buy early or not at all' priciple might apply.

Originally posted by Robert Merz@Oct 6 2005, 02:48 PM
Metal castings in the past have given me some real fits. I believe I have tried to work with two of them. I do understand that mostly, it was my poor choice in price range and manufacturer, which caused my frustration. I chose to start with a Pegaso kit because so may folks here seem to favor them and paint them. Will Pegaso require the undercutting and enhancement that the standard Historex or resin kits require to bring out the details such as buttons, belts, or straps? .

Depends I'm afraid, both on the specific kit and who sculpted it and on the 'age' of your casting.

I got three Pegaso '54mm' figures at one time that had been out for a while and one of them had a ~1/8" step from front to back when the leg casting was fitted to the body, this is on something only about 1/3" thick! All three of these kits, although generally well detailed, has some casting problems, including the usual pitting in certain areas as well as some softness in critical sharp areas like buckles. By comparison one of the brand-new 75mm figures that was just out at Euro Mil this year was just beautiful, one of the best-cast metal kits I have ever bought - much better than many Poste Militaire kits of around this scale for example.

Originally posted by Robert Merz@Oct 6 2005, 02:48 PM
In addition, most of the metal kits I have seen have a “stippled” or orange peel type surface, yet the painted figures I see are always flawless. How are the artist’s achieving that finish?

This is the pitting I refer to above. If the model has some of this you can sand/abrade some of it off, fill it with a slurry of epoxy putty or something similar, or a combination of the two techniques. If the problem is quite pronounced I would try and get a replacement part from the manufacturer.

Originally posted by Robert Merz@Oct 6 2005, 02:48 PM
I plan to use "Hangar 5" two-part epoxy to assemble. Are there any pitfalls here that I do not see? My experience with CA glues and metal, have not been good.

Superglue is a viable adhesive for smaller parts but it's a good idea to make sure both fixing surfaces are shiny - if they are dull you're just glueing oxide to oxide which is a common cause of joint failure. As is probably obvious it is best to reinforce any join that bears weight by pinning as well; don't rely on the glue alone.

For resin and some plastics superglue is often more than good enough although for larger parts I always pin now or use epoxy glue for peace of mind. In case you've never read it before you can also use superglue as a 'spot weld' to hold a joint while two-part epoxy cures.

Originally posted by Robert Merz@Oct 6 2005, 02:48 PM
I still plan to primer the figures using airbrushed acrylic, then finish with artist’s oils.

I use automotive primer as it's cheap, easy to get and very tough. Some people use Rustoleum primers in the US, colours 1981 or 1980 I think.

Originally posted by Robert Merz@Oct 6 2005, 02:48 PM
Most of my tools and all of my paint supplies were lost in the flood, so I replaced the Winsor & Newton oils with Van Gogh oils this time. I have read that the pigment is finer and the color stronger. Any comments on this?

Oh no, Van Gogh are Talens's mid-range line - they may be finer in the pigment-size department than some paints in W&N's artists' oils but that's because they aren't made from the same pigments (synthetic organic pigment particles being naturally smaller in size than those of inorganic pigments).

From what I've heard the Van Gogh line is of so-so pigment load, any artists' oils should be noticeably better. In addition to this the substitution of the inorganic colours will directly affect opacity - a hue of cadmium yellow or red will never even approach the opacity of the real thing for example which is why these are cornerstone pigments for most painters.

<!--QuoteBegin-Robert Merz@Oct 6 2005, 02:48 PM
For quality metal castings I am looking at Andrea, Pegaso, Soldiers (of Italy), and Metal Models. Can some of you please comment on your experiences with the quality of these manufacturers? [/quote]
Andrea can be very disappointing and if possible I would always recommend seeing the casting first before you buy, actually I'd recommend this with any maker as I've seen complete dogs from all of these except for Metal Modelles (which I just haven't seen many of in the flesh).

Don't be shy about picking the collective brain about anything and everything further.

Einion

 

[Blind Pew]

I would agree with everything already said.
Having rubbish kits and improving them is always valuable experience and in the end will make you know what to look out for in future.

Again, some manufacturers are better than others but I've generally found Pegaso, Metal Models, Le Cimier, Art Girona & Poste Militaire to be top notch. That's not to say that others aren't though.

As Enion rightly says, they've all produced a couple of stinkers down the years, especially the larger manufacturers.

I must admit that you struck a chord with me when you said that you'll slow down your output. This attitude has improved my modelling no end.

Remeber - there's seldom a competition category of 'fastest finished model'
Keep that in mind and you won't go far wrong!

Let us know how you get on........

 

[Robert Merz]

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[Robert Merz]

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