Agnicourt-1415

[mcsnead17]

I am looking for a book with the colors of the livery of all Welsh Archers there .

 

[Nap]

Try googling the subject or look for the Osprey book on Agincourt

Nap

 

[mcsnead17]

I have the book but there are no colors in the book dealing with the welsh archers at all not even the plates why?

 

[Nap]

I am currently researching the battle , and at present the impression I get is that tger was no uniforms as such apart from maybe a emblem but more often than not clothes and Equiptment was often acquired from the dead!

Alexandros did a good model of archers so that might be worth a look

Nap

 

[arj]

The attached document indicates that the uniform for archers in the English army was the St. George cross, front and back. Individual livery badges were probably also worn, so it's just a matter of checking who was in charge of the individual bands of archers and finding the relevant badge(s) for the added detail. No doubt there will have been variations, but who's going to have the definitive information to challenge what you chose to depict?
Cheers,

Andrew

 

[peedee]

Welsh arches ?

I know these medieval arches inside and out, they are in Tenby South Wales
All five of them

And in this one the 14.15 express from Penarth to Bergoed just went past!
Any help ?

Paul

 

[renarts]

Sir Thomas Epingham was given over all command of the archers at Agincourt. But archers were comprised of livery troops from each noble attending to Henry's call. i.e. The soldiers are listed under the captain who had brought them and under whom they were serving. To use the description commonly applied by historians, the soldiers were his retinue. Most retinues contained both men-at-arms and archers. In each company, the men-at-arms are listed first, and then the archers.
For instance, one particular entry is the muster of the company under the earl of Huntingdon. This was taken at Swanwick Heath on 14 July by Hugh Mortimer and Robert Castel esquire. The earl’s name is given first, and then the names of 21 men-at-arms (in the document they are called ‘escuiers’) and 72 archers (called ‘valettys’).
Your best bet is to research the muster rolls and find out who was there and the numbers of troops they brought. This will give you an idea of retinue heraldry and livery badges in addition to the general St. George's cross affixed to tunics and livery coats.

 

[Tony Barton]

It's quite possible that archers wore coloured liveries, if their leaders were wealthy enough to issue them, but although a great deal is known about the army at Agincourt because of the surviving documents, the liveries are not recorded. The usual practice with liveries was to wear the two principal colours of the leader's arms. But although the wearing of such liveries seems to have been common later in the 1400s ( as in the Wars of the Roses ) we don't really have enough info to know about 1415.
So you can make your own mind up.
But as renarts has pointed out , we do know that they all wore a red cross.

 

[arj]

This subject has certainly intrigued me.
I doubt that there is a definitive book giving the required liveries and consequently, I had a bit of a trawl through the web and came up with the following hits:-

40 facts about Wales’s involvement in the Battle | Agincourt 600 Wales – Cymru
http://agincourt600wales.com/40-facts-about-waless-involvement-in-the-battle/

Agincourt
http://www.medievalsoldier.org/Agincourt.php
http://agincourt600wales.com/40-facts-about-waless-involvement-in-the-battle/

Browse our catalogue | The National Archives - document E 101/46/20
(You’ll require to register and apply for digitised copies)
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/browse/r/h/C4509373

‘The King’s Welshmen: Welsh Involvement in the Expeditionary Army of 1415’ in Journal of Medieval Military History IX, ed. Anne Curry and Adrian Bell (Woodbridge, 2011) | Adam Chapman - Academia.edu
http://www.academia.edu/764509/_The...._Anne_Curry_and_Adrian_Bell_Woodbridge_2011_


Journal of Medieval Military History: Volume IX: Soldiers, Weapons and ... - Google Books
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=mN07G3w3lUwC&pg=PA49&lpg=PA50&ots=VvvGuI53md&focus=viewport&dq=TNA E 101/46/20&output=html_text

‘The Welsh Soldier 1283 – 1422’ (A Thesis by Adam John Chapman)
This looks like a very useful document
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCEQFjAA&url=http://eprints.soton.ac.uk/169897/1/AJChapman_ethesis.pdf&ei=iazsVPuBFYTkONDcgKgC&usg=AFQjCNGquGt69nNyeYkbojLz3b85JB3W4Q&bvm=bv.86475890,d.ZWU

Agincourt: The King, the Campaign, the Battle - Juliet Barker - Google Books
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=QDVTKcmqHjcC&pg=PT315&lpg=PT315&ots=t8VjwELQPO&focus=viewport&dq=contingents of welsh archers at agincourt&output=html_text

Trust you'll find something useful here.
I particularly fancy the penultimate link since it is a thesis and the author will have done a lot of thorough research.
Cheers,
Andrew

 

[Helm]

I would say given the weather and length of this particular campaign that the dyes of the period would have mainly washed out/faded so much as to be virtually indistinguishable from each other, it's unlikely even the personal retinues, let alone the levied archers would have had anything of high quality issued to them.That said it's unlikely anybody can prove this one way or the other
Steve

 

[Nap]

Hi mcsnead,

A lot if great information I will agree with helms thoughts about the state of dyes and uniform on such a long campaign ...probably at times hard to recognise the men .

Just as a matter of interest are you thinking of painting a particular figure to depict an Acher ?.......do share a picture as well

Nabp

 

[peedee]

.Hey mc
Do you know I was just thinking..
If you actually buy one,
you could use the boxtop photo and paint that
It would be easier
Look
I just googled agincourt archers,
took about 1 minute mate

Good luck
Paul

 

[Gaudin]

I would say given the weather and length of this particular campaign that the dyes of the period would have mainly washed out/faded so much as to be virtually indistinguishable from each other, it's unlikely even the personal retinues, let alone the levied archers would have had anything of high quality issued to them.That said it's unlikely anybody can prove this one way or the other
Steve

Precisely.
Someone criticised some of Sergei Popovichenko's paintings for being very washed out and speculated that bright colours would have been worn by soldiers to provide some identification of sides. I think Sergei's style is actually spot on, as all clothing would be well worn and faded, no footmen would get expensive colourful fabric, but I think they would wear small patches, badges, ribbons of colour to identify sides, usually heraldic colour of the "Boss"