For Sale Alexandros Busts, Elite, Alpine, Life +..., Clearance

[Wayneb]

I applaud anyone who discourages recasts......

 

[Babelfish]

He has said they are not recasts why not trust him? Boxes are often discarded to save space and websites like this a good reference for box art.

Claude, he was asked/invited both publically and privately via PM to show that the busts in question were originals in order to remove any doubt, but in 5 of the 6 cases he declined to do so.

Rarely are figures advertised for sale on here without their boxes, and on the occasions that they are, the sellers are usually keen to point out right from the off that the boxes have been lost/discarded or whatever but that the pieces themselves are originals. This is the correct way to go about it, not to crib photos of the box art off the internet and say "box not included" - which is the classic approach adopted by pirates on eBay. When this happens, people's suspicions are roused - and understandably so.

I'm sorry you don't approve, but that's the way it is.

- Steve

 

[Mark S]

I never thought the day would approach, in this decade at least, that I found myself agreeing with the comments of Claude Pottymouth, sorry can't help myself, Claude Portsmouth of course......sorry Claude.
Claude's right, the seller should have obviously been given the benefit of the doubt without being jumped upon and immediately accused of false dealing.
No original box is often a sign of recasting but certainly not conclusive evidence......I have many original figures in my grey army which have long since lost their boxes....and if I were to sell them I'd "lift" pictures of the web to sell them.
Anyway seems to be a moot point now anyway.................that sale seems to be "on permanent hold"

 

[Babelfish]

He left himself open to it Mark. As would you (or anyone for that matter) who adopted a similar approach. There are ways of doing these things.

As said before, he's been invited to clear up the matter and it would be easy enough to do so. So far he hasn't done so. Not much more to be said really.

- Steve

 

[Martin64]

Has anybody asked himself the question if it makes any sense to offer recasts on this platform at all??
Given I sell a recast to another member of PF and make 25 bucks out of it - it would be most probably my last action as a member of PF.
Is it worth to make some bucks and get your name related to these accusations? As far as I know we have other PF-members in the homecountry of AoD and with his name and address known for selling illegal copies he might even get in trouble with the law or else within the small hobby community.
Therefore in general I tend to believe another member who states that his pieces are genuine unless there is a proof for the accusations of fraud.

Not long ago another thread was locked in favor of a businessman who obviously offered illegal copies according to proof provided by the copyright holder (who knew best and opened the thread) because the accused was still given the benefit of the doubt.

Fair judgement?

 

[Babelfish]

Has anybody asked himself the question if it makes any sense to offer recasts on this platform at all??

It's happened before Martin. Some (usually new members) may not even be aware that that they are selling recasts, or that there is a pirating problem in the hobby. Which is why stickies were placed at the top of the forum pages, to try and increase awareness about it (whether everyone bothers reading them is another matter).

- Steve

 

[Martin64]

Stickies do not answer my questions on that matter and if it happens then there is the proof I asked for and then it`s time to take action IMHO.
But just wondering - I rest my case as I am not offering these kits.

 

[Gaudin]

Another thread springs to mind where commercial items where used to produce different commercial products by unrelated company, with solid proof from copyright holder, investigation was announced but nothing was done save locking the thread when it was getting personal.

That aside, in this thread at least, I think some appology is in order- the box pictures seem to have been uploaded?

 

[Babelfish]

Another thread springs to mind where commercial items where used to produce different commercial products by unrelated company, with solid proof from copyright holder, investigation was announced but nothing was done save locking the thread when it was getting personal.

I didn't deal with that one Dimitri, but at the end of the day it's up to the two parties involved in the dispute to sort it out between themselves. And a public forum like pF isn't the place to do that. Whether they then want to share that outcome on pF or elsewhere is up to them, but as far as I'm aware neither of them has done so.

In any case, it's not the job of the pF moderators to give the wider membership a running commentary about the progress of a private dispute - even if we knew what was going on between them (which we don't, because they haven't told us). Nor indeed would we have any right to do that without their consent. It's also not down to us to conduct the investigation - that's down to the party who feels that their copyright has been infringed.

That aside, in this thread at least, I think some appology is in order- the box pictures seem to have been uploaded?

There were originally six busts with a question mark over them that AoD was requested to show were originals.

He cleared up the question over the Steiner bust, but he has so far ignored requests to do the same with the other five. However he has now also added photos of an additional figure (Heracles) that wasn't in his original listing.

There was never an issue with other four pieces (Macarthur, the Greek cavalryman, the Elite 93rd Highlander and the U-Boat commander) because he offered them for sale in their original boxes. And that was also made clear. But he's now added photos of them anyway, even though he wasn't asked to do so!

Make of all that what you will.

- Steve

 

[Gaudin]

Fair enough I didn't spot that, sorry Steve.

 

[Babelfish]

No worries Dimitri. Easy to draw that conclusion if you weren't following the thread from the start.

- Steve

 

[brian]

O ye of little faith

 

[Claude Portsmouth]

Not a good way to treat a new member of the forum in my opinion, immediately accused of selling recasts in spite of his protestations to the contrary. Branded and attacked by moderators.....
not a good advert for the Forum. An apology would not go amiss.

 

[Babelfish]

No one is "branding and attacking" anyone Claude. Stop being so dramatic. Concerns were raised about 6 busts, and the OP was given the time and the opportunity to clear the matter up which – eventually – he did for one of them, but not thus far for the remaining five (however the door remains open for him to do so at any time). The pieces that were obviously legit were left in place for him to sell, and the fact that prior to this he had a good selling record was expressly pointed out.

The recasting issue is a serious one in the hobby, and many sculptors, manufacturers and figure companies are members here. This means that if something looks like it might be dodgy, it needs to be addressed and clarification sought. The alternative for us as mods is to just not bother – and you can safely bet your mortgage that if we did that, people would be complaining that we just don't give a stuff, that the place has become a haven for pirates peddling their wares, and "why don't the mods clamp down on this?!" blah blah blah.

So Claude, that's how it is. I know us mods can't please all of the people all of the time with the calls that we occasionally have to make – but hard luck. If you don't like the way in which the forum is moderated, no-one is forcing you to come here or post here. So feel free to leave at any time. You could even set up your very own figure forum and run it exactly how you think it should be run. The internet is wonderful for offering opportunities like that.

In the meantime, I see no point continuing to argue round the houses on this. So thread locked, but the sale remains open. Just contact the thread-starter via PM if you are interested in any of the pieces shown in his opening post.

- Steve