Basic figure painting advice for a novice

[gerryj199]

Hi,
I'm sorry about these very basic questions but I can't find these covered in any of the painting articles and books that I have. I've finally managed to set aside some time and I've starting working on a group of figures to help me practice techniques in prep work, filling, mounting and, of course, painting. But I am uncertain how to tackle certain elements of the figures and I wonder if anyone can share their experience on the following:
1. I'm painting a number of mounted figures and want to know, should I attach the stirrups to the riders before painting or should I paint them separately and then attach them later? If the latter, are there any good ways to avoid damaging the paintwork? I've found that trying to glue things on after the painting is done is often problematic in that I often have to go over the damage that I cause.
2. Similarly, what about small items like bridles, reins and rifles, what is the recommended approach?
3. Also, the fit of some of the pieces is such that I can see that I need to use milliput to fill gaps. What is recommended in cases where I know I'll need to fill a gap, but don't want to assemble the part until after it's painted. A real example of this is that on a 90mm Medieval King that I'm working on the right arm comes across the body to hold a sword hilt sitting in the middle front of the body. If I assemble the arm first, it will make painting the tunic more difficult, but if I assemble the arm after I've painted the tunic then I'll need to fill the sizable gap after I've painted the tunic, thereby requiring some repainting. How would you approach this?
4. Does anyone have a foolproof method for lining up pins for assembly? I've tried pain blobs but I often then get the alignment wrong. I don't know if this is just a hit or miss thing or if there's a technique to this.
5. Finally, does anyone have any hints for getting a smooth primer coat? I thought that perhaps cleaning the miniatures with alcohol might help. I have used Citadel White & Black and a grey metal primer in a spray booth, but often get quite a rough finish on the figures that seems to be very absorbent in that it seems to soak up the first coat of paint quite quickly. and leaves the surface feeling slightly rough.

Again, sorry these are so basic but I do this on my own and can't compare what I'm doing to others, so any experience or thoughts would be of interest.
Many thanks, and Happy Painting
Gerry

 

[housecarl]

I can't help all that much, but I tend to assemble as much as possible, allowing brush access.
I use a piece of Blu-tack to line up pins.
Drill one side. Put a piece of Blu-tack on the other, either dust the drilled side with talc. I tend to just lick it, anything to stop it sticking to the opposing face. Press them together, then drill the nipple that will form on the undrilled side.
Sounds complicated written, but easy in practice.
Carl.

 

[Helm]

Re the stirrups it is pa job by job thing really but as a rule I leave them till lastish

 

[PaultheMilitaryModeller]

Hi

Re question 4 when pinning arms it can sometimes be easier to assemble the arm in position a then drill from the outside through the arm and into the shoulder joint, that way you know it will be aligned correctly, you then kut your pin just long enough so that when it's pushed into the hole the end of the pin is just below the surface, all you then need to do is put a small amount of filler in the hole and the jobs done.

As for the other questions every one you build will be different, I find it better to assemble as much as possible before painting but if it's not possible either clean the paint off the contact point and use as little glue as possible or use something like CA glue which should grip the painted area without too many issues.

Paul

 

[Showlen]

Hey Gerry- No need at all to apologize for questions, either basic or advanced . I'm still very new at this myself and I've found that this community is always more than willing to share their knowledge and experiences. One great tool available is many years worth of threads with valuable information on many different topics.

As far as step 4, pinning is something that took me quite a bit of working with in order to be able to do a decent job. I collected several resin bases from busts and I started practicing with paperclips- using super glue and 2-part epoxy glue. I'll get a little paint on the end of a paperclip and dab it on the part you're going to pin. If I'm working with smaller scale, I just use paperclips to pin... I'll drill the hole slightly larger than the clip- maybe 25% larger. This then gives you some wiggle room. I'll get some 2-part glue on the paperclip and then pin the two parts together. I have a little bit of time to ensure they line up properly. Now this may be the absolute worst way to pin, but it's what I've found that works best for me. Finding anything to practice with helps a lot. Also, there's a video called "Hot Lead" by Laszlo Jakusovszky and he has a good segment on pinning. I'm a fan of this video set and it's helped me even though I don't really paint fantasy minis.

Primer! I'm not a fan of Citadel's primer... which I know is popular and used by many. Their black primer is nothing but plain black spray paint. As far as the Skull White, I always ended up with dust and I understand what you mean by the primer "soaking" the paint in. I love Mr. Hobby/Gunze 500, 1000, 1200 grey primer, but it's hard to find. Tamiya Fine Surface Primer is just as good and is now readily available since they started producing their cans with English labels. Now Anders Heintz turned me on to "Touch Brite" grey automotive primer which he uses and it works wonders!(http://www.amazon.com/Brite-Touch-BT49-Automotive-General/dp/B001DKLOHO). I get it at O'Reilly's auto parts or Auto Zone for just a few dollars. If you're looking for an enamel primer I suggest "Floquil" grey or white. The only drawback is that I find it very hard to remove if you want to start over on a mini.

I hope this helps... and don't hesitate to ask questions!

-Ronnie

 

[Bailey]

Gerry,

Here's an answer to question 3. I saw this demonstrated and thought it was a neat idea but have yet to try it myself. So I can't speak to all of the difficulties involved. If you need to fill a gap between two parts but don't want to glue them, this might work. First, make sure the fit between them is secure. I mean, a pin or a feature of the sculpt will allow you to place them relative to each other in the same way. Now, take the piece you don't want to have the putty and spread some petroleum jelly on it. Put putty on the opposite piece and then press the two together. You can fix/smooth/adjust the putty and when the gap is corrected, just separate the pieces. The putty should remain on one piece and the other should be clean. However, be sure to thoroughly clean the petroleum jelly off the figure before you prime or start to paint. A degreaser may be required, you'll just have to see if the jelly comes off without it or not. I've got a figure on my work bench with the same issue... so I'll be trying this out when I'm ready to start him.

As for the stirrups and other small parts, I tend to attach them afterwards... but if they don't obstruct your access and you can paint and handle the figure without knocking them off, go ahead and put them on. If you have to put them on after you paint, use as little glue as possible. Sometimes superglue can leave a residue as it evaporates, placing you figure in front of a fan can correct this problem.

And, for the primer coat, multiple thin coats can be better than one long spray.

 

[gerryj199]

My thanks to everyone that has replied. I really appreciate your taking the time to share your experience and there are some great tips here for me to try out. It's also really good to know that I'm not missing some "standard" techniques that everyone else uses and that it varies by individual figure. I'll continue to experiment and see what works best with each figure.

My thanks again for the help.
Best regards,
Gerry

 

[ChaosCossack]

As for the stirrups... I usually attach them after. I base colour the boots, stirrup and stirrup strap. then attach the stirrup to the boot with a dab of superglue on the bottom of the sole (near the ball of the foot) and the end of the strap fixing it to the inside of the calf, below the knee. Once these are set, touch up the base colour if needed, then highlight and shadow the boot, stirrup and strap.

Seems to work for me so far

Colin

 

[gerryj199]

I'm still working on the techniques suggested. When I decided to try figures larger than 25mm I decided to try a number at the same time so that I could practice the basic techniques that I had read about on multiple figures to make sure I understood what I was supposed to do. That way I thought I could do a lot of flash removal before moving on to fit and pinning, etc. and build a little bit of competence in each stage.

However, it's actually proven to be a lot more work than I expected. So far, I managed to drop a horse's head breaking an ear, glued things on in the wrong order making later items difficult to fit (note to self - scabbard goes on before cloak), overtrimmed items to help them fit, and mis-drilled pins for limb fitting (BTW I tried drilling through the arm and into the body to get a straight line fit for the pin, but unluckily the first time I tried this the drill bit stuck and sheered in two, embedding itself in the arm). In addition, I've tried multiple epoxy and CYA glues with mixed effect. I have a number of pieces in resin and metal that have required 3 or 4 attempts at gluing.

In addition, I've been shocked at the quality of fit (or actually the lack thereof) in many figures. I'm working on several each of 54mm, 90mm and a 120mm, and they are a mix of resin and metal figures. Some are excellent (Andrea's 90mm Conquistador was a dream, as was Stormtroopers little Dick Turpin) but others require significant remedial work which for me, since I'm new to this, is literally hours and hours of work. In fact, I've actually abandoned a 90mm mounted templar knight from perhaps the most reputable Italian manufacturer because I just don't have the skills or time to fix the dismal fit and construction.

This last one seemed to require that I have 3 or more hands and was designed to ensure that no clamp could be used to help any of the pieces stay in one place :-(

It helps to know that everyone seems to feel their way through this and adjusts to each individual figure. I think that it would certainly be a help if some figures were better designed and made.

Thanks again for all of the advice.
Regards,
Gerry

 

[Mirofsoft]

Glueing metall , I apply Patex ( all use ) then a drop of cyanolit, it's longer to dry but stays definitely in place 40 years after
Best

 

[Helm]

Gerry
Not trying to tell you what's right or wrong but I would suggest maybe just doing one at a time till you have the flow going to tackle more than one project. I agree that the lack of instructions especially in the case of large scale model firms is appalling even if it's only a simple line drawing showing assembly it would make our lives much easier. I've had a lot of success with Carl's method for drilling maybe give that a go and buy the best drills you can, cheap drills in every size are an accident waiting to happen.

Hope this helps some

Steve

 

[gerryj199]

Thanks. Pattex looks like its only sold in the nion-English speaking world (except for South Africa) but I'll try another all purpose adhesive that's available here (Looks like Loctite and Unibond are the same company as Pattex - Henkel).

I completely agree about the drill bits. This was a brand new Dremel-brand drill bit, one of a set. I'm sure it was more my fault than anything else, I need to learn how to secure the pieces better before drilling. Still, they say that "the man who never makes mistakes never makes anything". All part of the learning experience.

 

[Paul Kernan]

Gerry

Glad you're aboard. Never hesitate to ask questions with this lot. They are all very generous with their help. Even with their tongue firmy planted in their cheek sometimes

I know you've tried some of these already but like painting sometimes it takes a few times to get the knack.....keep at it.

1) and 2) Pretty much depends on the project. I try and assemble (sub assemblies) as much as possible.

3) Sometimes unavoidable but being an oil painter, I always keep a small amount of paints for the current project in an old flim canister in the freezer for repair/touch-ups (will last for a good few weeks)

4) Pinning.....I tend to do as others and after aligning as best I can, I drill one hole slightly larger than the other. Allows the wiggle room.
One other method is to glue the pieces together (ex arm and torso), then drill through the arm from the outside into the torso. Snip the clip as close to the arm as possible and clean up. Apply putty to the hole and resculpt.

5) Priming.....Regardless of material, wash the figure in warm soapy water, rinse well and allow to dry. Whatever I use (Citadel, Testors, Car primer) I always warm the can, shake well and apply several light mists. Gradually build up a very thin coat and allow each coat to dry. This should take care of the 'orange peel' effect and avoid gumming up the fine details on the figure.

One trick I've picked up from here lately, is when using two part epoxy, apply a small touch of superglue as 'spot weld', allows the two part to cure without having to hold on (and pray) for 5-10 minutes.

 

[Mirofsoft]

One cheap trick to test your hand..
Buy a DelPrado ( like the chivalry serie ) and just repaint them , then compare to the original
use the original painting as the primer, I suggest oils .
Take a picture before and one after .