Ron Tamburrini
A Fixture
Looks like a good halfway house figure for those of us do not go down the full fantasy road 
Ron
Ron
CASTLE Miniatures News
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Viking Bob
PlanetFigure Supporter
I'll add my two penny worth, Love the Viking with the shield, although not my period, would buy in the normal way.
Hopefully this will happen. Please!
Hopefully this will happen. Please!
Bailey
A Fixture
I don't mind the kickstarter/indiegogo format. Keep in mind that, in most cases, the company will be releasing the figures the normal way too. Doing it this way let's them make sure there will be enough sales to justify the cost of molding and casting. If the campaign fails to meet it's goal (set by the company and listed at the top right of the indiegogo page), everyone who pledged gets a refund. There's a small difference between indiegogo and kickstarter here. Indiegogo takes the funds when immediately when you pledge and holds them until the campaign ends (automatically refunding you if it fails to meet the goal). Kickstarter does not take anything until after the campaign ends and only if it is successful.
The risk on the buyers part is the company will get the funds and not be able to carry through on their promise. In a case where you've got a company with a good reputation (as far as I'm aware), one that's made figures and should know the costs involved, and one where the sculpts are completed, I'd say there is very little risk. Basically you are pre-ordering the figures and, in return, get a reduced price.
Anyway, these look like great figures. And, if the campaign is successful, I'm sure they will be sold as a normal part of their line
The risk on the buyers part is the company will get the funds and not be able to carry through on their promise. In a case where you've got a company with a good reputation (as far as I'm aware), one that's made figures and should know the costs involved, and one where the sculpts are completed, I'd say there is very little risk. Basically you are pre-ordering the figures and, in return, get a reduced price.
Anyway, these look like great figures. And, if the campaign is successful, I'm sure they will be sold as a normal part of their line
Good evening everybody,
I have to admit that we did not expect to raise so much doubts or questions with our announcement.
First of all, we would like to assure all our loyal clients and fellow modelers that you will be able to purchase these figures in any usual way: from our own webstore (www.castleminiatures.com), from your local hobby shop or from your trusted dealers like SK Miniatures or Red Lancers.
These miniatures will be available as soon, as we deliver last figure to our supporters on Indiegogo.
Actually, Bailey gave answers to all your questions and I have almost nothing to add. Even if campaign fails, we will produce them as we did in the past.
Our campaign was launched in order to make sure that we have enough funds to produce these figures fast without running a risk to run out of silicone, resin or packaging.
As for the name "Tales of the North", Steve, the figure that you've mentioned is not ours anymore. It is produced under a different brand.
Best regards,
Alex from CASTLE Miniatures
I have to admit that we did not expect to raise so much doubts or questions with our announcement.
First of all, we would like to assure all our loyal clients and fellow modelers that you will be able to purchase these figures in any usual way: from our own webstore (www.castleminiatures.com), from your local hobby shop or from your trusted dealers like SK Miniatures or Red Lancers.
These miniatures will be available as soon, as we deliver last figure to our supporters on Indiegogo.
Actually, Bailey gave answers to all your questions and I have almost nothing to add. Even if campaign fails, we will produce them as we did in the past.
Our campaign was launched in order to make sure that we have enough funds to produce these figures fast without running a risk to run out of silicone, resin or packaging.
As for the name "Tales of the North", Steve, the figure that you've mentioned is not ours anymore. It is produced under a different brand.
Best regards,
Alex from CASTLE Miniatures
Viking Bob
PlanetFigure Supporter
Fantastic!
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Just to be clear, my comments below relate to the indiegogo business concept in general and not to this Castle Miniatures appeal in particular.
That's not what it says here:
http://wp.josh.com/2014/01/21/read-this-before-you-contribute-to-an-indiegogo-campaign/
I have no reason to believe that Castle Miniatures is anything but a reputable company, so in this case the risk probably is indeed minimal. But if you don't know who you are dealing with ... good luck!
No, you are handing over money for the figures (or whatever the subject of the campaign is) and hoping that you will eventually get them at some point down the line. And if the goods (or "perks" as they like to call them in their marketing jargon) are not forthcoming, you are hoping that whoever you have pledged money to is of good character and will give you a refund.
In other words you are not so much "pre-ordering" as trusting complete strangers with your money in the hope that you will - eventually - get the item you want, but with no safeguards and no hope of seeing your hard-earned again if they turn out to be dodgy, or even if they are unable to refund you despite their good intentions (company goes bust for example).
All a bit too hit & miss for me, with too much crossing of fingers.
- Steve
That's not what it says here:
http://wp.josh.com/2014/01/21/read-this-before-you-contribute-to-an-indiegogo-campaign/
I have no reason to believe that Castle Miniatures is anything but a reputable company, so in this case the risk probably is indeed minimal. But if you don't know who you are dealing with ... good luck!
No, you are handing over money for the figures (or whatever the subject of the campaign is) and hoping that you will eventually get them at some point down the line. And if the goods (or "perks" as they like to call them in their marketing jargon) are not forthcoming, you are hoping that whoever you have pledged money to is of good character and will give you a refund.
In other words you are not so much "pre-ordering" as trusting complete strangers with your money in the hope that you will - eventually - get the item you want, but with no safeguards and no hope of seeing your hard-earned again if they turn out to be dodgy, or even if they are unable to refund you despite their good intentions (company goes bust for example).
All a bit too hit & miss for me, with too much crossing of fingers.
- Steve
Markus
A Fixture
I love this Vikings !!!
Kevindunne
A Fixture
We may be overthinking this a bit here!
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Possibly Kevin, but people have been burned by "crowdfunding" scams and they seem to be on the increase, so it probably doesn't hurt for members to be aware of the possible pitfalls involved.
Once again not specific to this particular case because Castle are known to most of us, but just in general for future reference.
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/money/crowdfunding-scam
Also it's arguably better to overthink something than to not think at all.
- Steve
Once again not specific to this particular case because Castle are known to most of us, but just in general for future reference.
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/money/crowdfunding-scam
Also it's arguably better to overthink something than to not think at all.
- Steve
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But to get this thread back on track, these two are absolutely tremendous pieces and I will definitely be buying them once they become available through the normal outlets (are you listening SK?! ).
And to Alex: thank you for clarifying that about the other figure that used to be part of your range. I didn't know that it had changed ownership (regardless of ownership, it would make a great companion piece to this pair).
- Steve
).And to Alex: thank you for clarifying that about the other figure that used to be part of your range. I didn't know that it had changed ownership (regardless of ownership, it would make a great companion piece to this pair).
- Steve
Bailey
A Fixture
Sorry to take this a bit off topic still...
Steve, that article doesn't contradict what I said. If the campaign fails to meet it's funding goal, the money does not go to them and instead is returned to you. That is the Indiegogo policy. If the funding goal is reached (which is what that post is talking about), then company/person does get the money and, as I said before, "the risk on the buyer's part is the company will get the funds and not be able to carry through on their promise."
As you said, you're talking about Indiegogos in general and I was speaking more to ones like this. Here we have an established company with a sculpt. In this case it is essentially a pre-order model with little to no risk. Is Castle Miniatures (or a company like them) really going to default on a project for a few thousand dollars and destroy their reputation and business? I highly doubt it. (Again, I know you're not implying this company would)
Now, when you've got an Indiegogo or Kickstarter from an unknown person/company, you've got to use your better judgement. As you said, the companies aren't required to deliver and you can get left with nothing. However, the vast majority of figure ones have been fine (though delays in delivery are common). I can only think of one that ran into major issues and, last I heard, they were trying to deliver what they could and not just vanishing. Personally, when I look at a figure project my concern is more on the quality of the figure. Pretty concept art does not mean a good figure, so I refuse to commit to a project that just has art and no example sculpts (or at least very far along WIP sculpts). But I also take what I read and know about the person running it and decide whether or not they have my trust.
I've backed 34 kickstarter projects and another 5 Indiegogo ones. While some have hit long delays, not a one of them has up and vanished. Some are still working on the project, but they've been posting updates with photos of the product so I have no doubt they will deliver when it is done. The rest have delivered their product as promised.
So should you be wary of Indiegogos and Kickstarters? Sure, you've got to use your better judgement. But are the majority of companies on there just trying to scam you and steal your money? No. I'm not saying none of them are, there are definitely examples of bad ones, but most are legitimately trying to use these sites to make their idea/product a reality.
Steve, that article doesn't contradict what I said. If the campaign fails to meet it's funding goal, the money does not go to them and instead is returned to you. That is the Indiegogo policy. If the funding goal is reached (which is what that post is talking about), then company/person does get the money and, as I said before, "the risk on the buyer's part is the company will get the funds and not be able to carry through on their promise."
As you said, you're talking about Indiegogos in general and I was speaking more to ones like this. Here we have an established company with a sculpt. In this case it is essentially a pre-order model with little to no risk. Is Castle Miniatures (or a company like them) really going to default on a project for a few thousand dollars and destroy their reputation and business? I highly doubt it. (Again, I know you're not implying this company would)
Now, when you've got an Indiegogo or Kickstarter from an unknown person/company, you've got to use your better judgement. As you said, the companies aren't required to deliver and you can get left with nothing. However, the vast majority of figure ones have been fine (though delays in delivery are common). I can only think of one that ran into major issues and, last I heard, they were trying to deliver what they could and not just vanishing. Personally, when I look at a figure project my concern is more on the quality of the figure. Pretty concept art does not mean a good figure, so I refuse to commit to a project that just has art and no example sculpts (or at least very far along WIP sculpts). But I also take what I read and know about the person running it and decide whether or not they have my trust.
I've backed 34 kickstarter projects and another 5 Indiegogo ones. While some have hit long delays, not a one of them has up and vanished. Some are still working on the project, but they've been posting updates with photos of the product so I have no doubt they will deliver when it is done. The rest have delivered their product as promised.
So should you be wary of Indiegogos and Kickstarters? Sure, you've got to use your better judgement. But are the majority of companies on there just trying to scam you and steal your money? No. I'm not saying none of them are, there are definitely examples of bad ones, but most are legitimately trying to use these sites to make their idea/product a reality.
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Sorry, you are wrong.
"Similar to Kickstarter is IndieGoGo; the main difference is that with IndieGoGo, you get to keep the money pledged if your project fails to meet its goal. While the all-or-nothing policy leads to motivation on Kickstarter, there’s something nice about getting any money as opposed to none."
http://idealware.org/blog/nothing-nothing-kickstarter-vs-indiegogo
Regardless, there is an element of risk involved. But it's pointless keep arguing round the houses on this. People can read the T&Cs of the various crowdfunding platforms for themselves, check out these and other links, and it's up to the individual to decide how great they consider the risk to be and whether or not they are willing to take it. I'm glad that your experiences to date have been positive ones.
- Steve
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Yury Serebriakov is the man when it comes to sculpting vikings I think. I have yet to see anyone match his Norsemen.
- Steve
Bailey
A Fixture
Steve, I believe that article is incorrect. This is direct from Indiegogo's site:
"Fixed Funding campaigns that do not meet their goal
Contributions made to any fixed funding campaign will be refunded in full if the campaign has not met its funding goal by its deadline. Contributors will receive these refunds in their PayPal accounts or issuing credit card within five days of the campaign's end."
https://support.indiegogo.com/hc/en-us/articles/526876-Refunds-Can-I-get-my-money-back-
In general I do agree with you, there is risk involved in these and people should evaluate the project/company before backing. And there's nothing wrong with waiting until these products go into regular production and are sold through the store. No one has to back indiegogos if they don't want!
"Fixed Funding campaigns that do not meet their goal
Contributions made to any fixed funding campaign will be refunded in full if the campaign has not met its funding goal by its deadline. Contributors will receive these refunds in their PayPal accounts or issuing credit card within five days of the campaign's end."
https://support.indiegogo.com/hc/en-us/articles/526876-Refunds-Can-I-get-my-money-back-
In general I do agree with you, there is risk involved in these and people should evaluate the project/company before backing. And there's nothing wrong with waiting until these products go into regular production and are sold through the store. No one has to back indiegogos if they don't want!
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That seems to be a new rule (effective Sept. '15) for people who contribute and then change their minds while a campaign is still running.
There's also an important "unless" (see your link), namely unless your money has already gone directly to the campaign owner. And if you pay with PP, IndieGoGo forwards it directly on to the campaign owner.
I guess you could still open a PP dispute, but (a) it's an extra hassle, (b) you would have to do so within PP's time limit and (c) no 100% guarantee that it will succeed.
And this …
"Contributions made to any fixed funding campaign will be refunded in full if the campaign has not met its funding goal by its deadline. Contributors will receive these refunds in their PayPal accounts or issuing credit card within five days of the campaign's end."
… only applies to the "fixed funding" (aka "all-or-nothing") campaigns. With the "flexible funding" (aka "keep it all") model, the campaign owner gets to keep the money pledged, so you are still relying on their goodwill for any refund. See:
"Flexible funding: Keep Your Money No Matter What
Choose flexible funding if any amount of money will help you reach your campaign objective and you’ll still be able to fulfill your perks. Flexible funding is suitable for almost all the campaigns on Indiegogo. With flexible funding, you keep all funds, even if you do not meet your goal!"
https://support.indiegogo.com/hc/en-us/articles/205138007-Funding-Can-I-Keep-My-Money-
This from another consumer site:
"… supporters are more likely to fund all-or-nothing projects because they know they get the money back if the goal isn’t reached. The thought that nothing may come out of this money would make any of us more hesitant. "
https://www.shopify.co.uk/guides/crowdfunding/indiegogo-benefits-drawbacks
- Steve
davidmitchell
A Fixture
I will just get mine from SK Miniatures no problem .
Cheers David
Cheers David
