Chainmail

[castoff]

Maybe too ambitious for a first piece at 1:10 scale, but I am attempting to model a bust of a 2nd cent Gallic warrior.

The reference I'm using illustrates the man wearing bronze mail. I've made a fairly reasonable attempt at sculpting mail in the past but on a much smaller scale figure, however I am not entirely happy with my test runs at this larger scale. I've looked at a few busts at this scale for inspiration. Some seem scarily realistic and beyond my skills and others more just suggestive of mail, but on-line it is sometimes difficult to see detail due to screen resolution

I would be very grateful for any advice. (I'm thinking possibly "give up and pick a simpler subject!")

Cheers

Jim

 

[1969]

Jim most sculptors give a representation of mail for there figures especially in the smaller scales up to about 90mm or so but for larger scales like 1/10 it is more convincing and possible to recreate the actual mail with metal rings, a tedious and fidley job I admit but one that gives you a convincing effect.

Another quicker method although not as good is to just wind the wire around a suitable metal rod at the right thickness, wind it tightly around as many times as possible keeping each loop close together. When you have finished the winding process slide the whole thing of the metal rod and gently pull the loops slightly apart, not too much and keep it even.
Then use a small hammer and flatten all the hoops down in the same direction cut to size and attach to figure in rows to create a 3d effect mail.
Obviously this method takes time but will give you quicker results than building mail hoop by hoop.

Steve

 

[gordy]

Jim,

Here are some good links to help you along:

http://www.planetfigure.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31615

http://www.planetfigure.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19611

http://www.timelinesforum.com/forums/printthread.php?t=971&pp=40

http://forums.delphiforums.com/n/ma...msg=130.1&prettyurl=/eph2/messages/?msg=130.1

http://www.chainmailbasket.com/making_maille.php

When Einion wakes up he'll have a good list of links

 

[Vermis]

This is something I need to knuckle down to, also. Thanks for the links, although the pF links in the second topic don't seem to work. They take me back to the forum index.

 

[gordy]

This is something I need to knuckle down too, also. Thanks for the links, although the pF links in the second topic don't seem to work. They take me back to the forum index.

Ahh, those broken links in that one post are from an old forum upgrade, sorry about that!

 

[castoff]

Thanks guys,

Gordy, very useful links thanks very much, confirms that this forum is going to be very helpful.

Steve, Although some people seem to get good results at this larger scale I just don't find my attempts with needles and 'C' tools, as you say, convincing enough. I think I'll take a deep breath and give the wire method a go. I'll try to resist the easier 'flattened spring' method until I see how things go. I have other projects so I can do some rings while waiting for drying/curing etc rather than driving myself demented doing nothing but rings. (I have rigged model boats in the past so I'm used to tedious and fiddly)
I am now looking at the figure trying to convince myself that the area of mail is not really that big! In fact it can be worked on in 3 sections so that will help greatly.

Cheers

Jim

 

[1969]

Jim I think your approach to make the mail in the fashion it would be in 1:1 is the right way to go if you want the best results, like you say if you break it up it into sections it wont be that bad.
Good luck with it and looking forward to seeing some pictures showing the results.

Steve

 

[1969]

Jim found this link which might be useful, if you notice the sculptor only used full rings for the horizontal rows and then uses half rings to connect these, should be a lot quicker this way and the SBS although not in English is easy to follow.

http://www.spanish-team.com/foro/viewtopic.php?t=12620

Cheers

Steve

 

[diamond cutter]

You could try laying curb chain of the right size in rows-works quite well

 

[diamond cutter]

Made in 1992. The first use of this chain method I think?

 

[castoff]

Once again, many thanks Steve.

Once I have time I will have to have a good look through the posts on this forum, seems to be a wealth of tips and inspiration, but I suspect I'm going to be very busy for some time trying to model chainmail!

"es muy sencillo, aunque infernalmente tedioso," – Kind of says it all.

Jim

 

[renarts]

There are a couple of things that might help you out and would be easier than trying to ring together 4 in 1 mail.
A butcher's glove or woodcarving glove is essentially a "chain mail" glove and is usually a fine set of rings that should be about the scale you're looking for. Another alternative is to haunt the vintage clothing stores, antique shops, flea markets and estate sale houses. A popular fashion accessory in the 20's, 30's, and 40's were little chain mail purses. These again are a fine weave of rings and are in the appropriate scale. They can usually be picked up pretty cheap and once cut with some wire cutters will give you whole sheets that you can use.

 

[Harry]

I'd not build up any hopes about finding mail mesh ready-made in the size you need. To be near to scale, the external diameter of the mail rings on a 1/10 scale figure would need to be less than a milllimetre (the average external diameter of 3rd-2nd century BC Celtic mail rings is about 8.5 mm, so 0.85mm in 1/10 scale). Ready-made mail mesh or jewellery chain is unavailable at that size. Butcher's gloves have considerably larger links than that (usually about 4 or 5mm across), and I'd very much doubt that 1920s fashion items have such small links either.

It looks like making it yourself from wire rings is the only way to go. Think yourself lucky you only want to do a bust. A full size mail shirt needs about 20,000 rings.

 

[gordy]

Sergey provided this also:

http://www.modelsculpt.org/topic/899-кольчуга-как-сделать/

 

[neill]

Weighing in late I know. . .

I use a tool I watch old time Miniature Maker Peter Twist use. I have used it for years wit good results. Simple to make to the scale you need. You can see the drawing I made and details at

http://prayershield.com/rohan.html

 

[Einion]

I've made a fairly reasonable attempt at sculpting mail in the past but on a much smaller scale figure, however I am not entirely happy with my test runs at this larger scale. I've looked at a few busts at this scale for inspiration. Some seem scarily realistic and beyond my skills and others more just suggestive of mail, but on-line it is sometimes difficult to see detail due to screen resolution

Good idea to do this, see what you think looks best, remembering that most mail depicted in miniature is way overscale.

FWIW an impression of the texture is probably better than a ring-by-ring representation, even at this scale. This is because of the very small size of the rings to begin with but there's more.

At 1:10 a 'typical' ring could be said to be 1mm in diameter (some would be smaller even than this) but since each ring is not fully visible in mail you're looking at maybe 0.7mm of curvature visible for each row! Tough call indeed to do this with wire, as lovely as the effect can look.

Just on this bit Jim:

The reference I'm using illustrates the man wearing bronze mail.

What's the reference?

Einion