Citadel washes.

[housecarl]

What is consensus on Citadel washes? I bought the "devlin earth" today and I think it to be rather splendid. I found it to have a higher viscosity, than a plain acrylic glaze. Or is it that I'm behind the times?
Curious Carl.

 

[Einion]

I don't use washes much Carl, but for me they're just paint + water and/or medium of some kind. Seems a bit of a waste to me to pay for more water

Einion

 

[housecarl]

Thanks Einion, you have made me feel better LOL. I had never heard of them before, so I got one to give it a go and I like it, but I'm easily pleased.
Cheers,
Carl.

 

[Ventress]

I like the washes- maybe I use them too much- but they give me the effects I look for- plus they dry matt!

 

[rosman]

you have to think that Games Workshop creates that tipe of paints for the players of their games, then you paint the minis with basic colours and then you paint with the washes, and all the shadows are done, and for the lights a drybrush and you have painted a lot of minis with only a bit of time

 

[Uruk-Hai]

I don't use washes much Carl, but for me they're just paint + water and/or medium of some kind. Seems a bit of a waste to me to pay for more water

Einion

I hear a lot of that for many products. Pigments, oils, paints, washes, filters, photoetch, barrels etc.

My idea is that if it helps the individual, whats the problem?

If I know how to make washes, how is that going to help a newbie, even with a great explanation? These companys helps the average hobbyist that thinks its hard and do not have the same experience as many of us oldtimers. Then its splendid as it makes them achieve better result which in turn probably will make them stay within the hobby.

Also I did comparission with MIG´s oils and pigments some years ago and actually found them very priceworthy compared to other manufacturers products. And then we have that his colours are usually better for our purposes.

Cheers
Janne Nilsson

 

[Steve]

I have been around the block a couple of times figure wise and adding a couple of drops of color to a lot of water to make a wash is as mentioned above a no-brainer. However I use a lot of Citadel products simply because of the unique tones, which I find difficult to replicate with paint and water. Washes are only a tiny fraction of my technique, but when I want one I go to Citadel for their version. I like 'em a lot. I use them for glazes more often than washes per se, but I like having them around.

 

[Einion]

I hear a lot of that for many products. Pigments, oils, paints, washes, filters, photoetch, barrels etc.

My idea is that if it helps the individual, whats the problem?

I know what you're getting at but these are not all the same kind of thing - a commercial wash is not in the same ballpark as a turned aluminium barrel or photo-etch, which are beyond the ability of most people to create even if they wanted to.

This is a wash we're talking about, not exactly high-tech!

These companys helps the average hobbyist that thinks its hard and do not have the same experience as many of us oldtimers.

It's worth bearing in mind right from the start that even with a purpose-made wash there are no guarantees; a homemade equivalent could easily be better, not least because it can be varied to suit individual taste or circumstances. Plus context is important - this is a historical-modelling site primarily, not a fantasy mini site where most users paint armies for gaming, and answers are geared accordingly.

The question asked was, "What is [the] consensus on Citadel washes?" So open invitation to give our opinions on it, positive or negative.

This isn't like advising someone to make their own paint (which we could all do if we really wanted!) at the most basic you can take a dot of paint, load your brush with water and swish around a bit... not only is it guaranteed to be cheaper (GW product = automatically overpriced), it's in any colour you want and it only took five seconds to create.

If someone wants to get more sophisticated they can try Future/Klear, matte medium, dishwashing liquid and a number of other additives or ingredients.

All someone new to the subject has to do is ask or look for this kind of info, which is to their benefit in the long and short terms. If they still want to go with a readymade product of this kind that's kewl, but at least they're then making an informed decision which can't be a bad thing.

Einion

 

[Uruk-Hai]

I know what you're getting at but these are not all the same kind of thing - a commercial wash is not in the same ballpark as a turned aluminium barrel or photo-etch, which are beyond the ability of most people to create even if they wanted to.

For some it actually is and others who would prefer working the lathe any given day.

It's worth bearing in mind right from the start that even with a purpose-made wash there are no guarantees; a homemade equivalent could easily be better, not least because it can be varied to suit individual taste or circumstances. Plus context is important - this is a historical-modelling site primarily, not a fantasy mini site where most users paint armies for gaming, and answers are geared accordingly.

And yet many painters find them helpful, guaranted or not? For me it doesnt matter what you do with you figure after its painted, its the look thats important to me, and I cant really see the point in making the comparission between historical - fantasy and single figures - armies? Could you develop this thought of yours?

Still, if it works for them, whats the problem? We are not talking about giving an arm and a leg for those washes, are we?

Also, for oils and enamels it works fine to add more solvent to make washes. But Acrylics are a bit more complicated. This becouse the tension of the water has to be broken and also just adding more water can be problematic.

Last Sunday some guys where here. Anders(Ritual) brought one of these and his use of it was something to be proud of, I can assure you. We all liked it, and these guys certainly know how to make a wash.

If I understand you correctly you havent used this wash yourself? If thats correct I wonder how you can be so certain in your stance?

If someone wants to get more sophisticated they can try Future/Klear, matte medium, dishwashing liquid and a number of other additives or ingredients.

Or you can buy the ready made wash at Games Workshop.

Cheers
Janne Nilsson

 

[Uruk-Hai]

And by the way, Epee´s and Foil´s do go shinggg. Just visit the next fencing competition.

Cheers
Janne Nilsson

 

[Einion]

And yet many painters find them helpful, guaranted or not?

I didn't say they weren't helpful. Many products that are helpful any number of us don't use.

For me it doesnt matter what you do with you figure after its painted, its the look thats important to me, and I cant really see the point in making the comparission between historical - fantasy and single figures - armies? Could you develop this thought of yours?

That's a subject for another thread. Be happy to go into it if you want to start one.

If I understand you correctly you havent used this wash yourself?

That's correct.

If thats correct I wonder how you can be so certain in your stance?

Which bit, that one is essentially paying for more water?
That as a GW product it's overpriced? That's a given
That a homemade alternative is more versatile? I don't think there's much doubt about that, but opinions vary.

If someone wants to get more sophisticated they can try Future/Klear, matte medium, dishwashing liquid and a number of other additives or ingredients.

Or you can buy the ready made wash at Games Workshop.

Indeed, they're free to do so. Just as I'm free to suggest they try something else instead Janne.

Einion

 

[Einion]

And by the way, Epee´s and Foil´s do go shinggg.

My sig line is about the silly sound used in most movies when swords - of nearly any type, of any era, with any type of scabbard (including types with no metal at the chape!) - are drawn

Einion

 

[Uruk-Hai]

My sig line is about the silly sound used in most movies when swords - of nearly any type, of any era, with any type of scabbard (including types with no metal at the chape!) - are drawn

Einion

I was aware of that, I was just peckin a bit on you.

However despite your other post I cant really understand, how you can be so certain that the same could be achieved just by adding water? For a technique you dont use? And for a product you havent tried?

Even if the waterprice is very high, you dont entirely pay for the water but rather the mix, formula and other ingridients that I suspect there are in this wash. Just like buying a bottle of coke. The most of it is water anyway.

Also as you noticed with the examples you made it then turns into experimenting and additional products. A lot of people dont want to do that of many different reasons.

Cheers
Janne Nilsson

 

[housecarl]

The last thing I wanted to do was stir up a hornets nest. I'm more than capable of making a wash, I just found another string to my bow (old archery term). The viscosity seems to be greater than with just plain water, and as for washing up liquid that's a new one on me. Could someone explain?
Carl.

 

[Einion]

I was aware of that, I was just peckin a bit on you.

I was aware of that

However despite your other post I cant really understand, how you can be so certain that the same could be achieved just by adding water? ...for a product you havent tried?

When someone says you're paying for more water with a specific product that doesn't mean that they're saying it's made just with more water; that's an inference, not an implication. It should have been clear from my very first post that I don't assume washes are made only by adding water and water alone.... so you don't have to go back and check:

...for me [washes are] just paint + water and/or medium of some kind.

For a technique you dont use?

"I don't use washes much..." doesn't mean "I don't use washes" Janne.

However, something important to emphasise here: it wouldn't matter if I didn't use washes at all. If someone asked a question about Milliput, it doesn't mean only people who use it are allowed to respond and it certainly doesn't mean they can't have useful input to provide. Same deal here.

The last thing I wanted to do was stir up a hornets nest.

Hey, it happens. Not your fault Carl.

The viscosity seems to be greater than with just plain water, and as for washing up liquid that's a new one on me. Could someone explain?

Cuts surface tension, which can help to prevent tide marks at the edges of washes as they dry. You can also use ox gall, blending mediums and tension breaker for similar results. Some people get good results just with Future/Klear.

If you do a search on CMON in the Painting & Conversions forum for dishwashing liquid you'll see more. Worth also looking up magic wash while you're at it.

Einion

 

[captnenglish]

I love the GW washes, but then again I'm a crap painter

 

[billyturnip]

I love the GW washes, but then again I'm a crap painter

Lol, Ditto.

I've found them most useful when painting horses.

Roger.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

I
"I don't use washes much..." doesn't mean "I don't use washes" Janne.

However, something important to emphasise here: it wouldn't matter if I didn't use washes at all. If someone asked a question about Milliput, it doesn't mean only people who use it are allowed to respond and it certainly doesn't mean they can't have useful input to provide. Same deal here.

Thats very true, everyone is entitled their opinion. But an opinion isnt better than the facts and experience its based upon. Also one should always know that its okay for others to have opinions on ones opinions.(I hope I got that right, there where many "opinion-words" in that sentence.)

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?catId=cat1290023&categoryId=1100022&section=&aId=6800011

Cheers
Janne Nilsson

 

[housecarl]

So the answer to my original question is, some people love and some think they are a load of gash. Thanks it turned out a rewarding debate.
Cheers,
Carl.