Could This Be Peiper At The Battle Of The Bulge?

[Sturm Grenadier]

Hello Johan, Thanks again. I have seen all of the photos that you have posted before, and I agree with you, the kits and Apine figures are excellent. I was planning to do a wedgie/vignette using a 251 halftrack with the Peiper and Diefenthal from Apine, along with 1 or 2 more figures. Maybe I'll change things around a bit? Here is a photo of the Potschke figure discribed earlier: Verlinden Productions, German Infantry & Tank Officer #1380. I have these figures and they are very well detailed. They are also still available. Regards, SG

 

[Johan]

SG, thanks for the heads up on the verlinden set - looks good

Oh I forgot to mention : in this book about modelling the Dragon 1/35 Panther http://www.canfora.se/product/panther/ (see link and picture) you'll find if I recall well three illustrated articles with beautiful pics about KG Peiper vehicles, of which two are using the figures of the Alpine sets (articles about Panther "221" and "202") ; just in case you need some more inspiration

 

[T50]

... or maybe it was grey leather ? The double-breasted 3/4 length U-boot leather coat also existed in grey leather...
BTW note the rank : only sturmbannfuhrer here, so I'm afraid this is way before the Ardennes Offensive, when he was Obersturmbannfuhrer ...

I've seen these pics. You might be right. The center pic was definitely taken prior to Hungary judging by the condition of the canvas binocular cover. Peiper during the BoB could have worn black pz suit, light grey double breasted KM leather coat, and mountain boots.

 

[Johan]

Peiper during the BoB could have worn black pz suit, light grey double breasted KM leather coat, and mountain boots.

... sounds like a plan for a future Alpine figure, or is that too much wishful thinking ?

 

[Sturm Grenadier]

Hello Taesung, Thanks for responding. I find it amazing that there is not one photograph of Peiper at the BOB, since it seems that there are many of him taken before and after the battle. I read somewhere that Peiper was the poster child of Germany, being photographed and filmed everywhere he went, but unfortunately it seems, not in the Ardennes 44. Perhaps the Bundesarchiv in Germany might be able to produce a photo?, or one from somebody's private collection? If one should ever materialise, I hope you are the one to sculpt it, maybe 1/16th Regards, SG

 

[brian]

I hope for the sake of the American soldiers in the picture he's not Pieper.
Brian

 

[Ortigara]

You may need reminding that Peiper did NOT hang at the Nuremberg trials ... If he had murdered so many POWS etc Then I'm sure like many of his comrades he surely would of met this fate.

Carlos

Maybe you need reminding that yes he was not actually hanged, but he wast sentenced to death and the sentence was later changed in life imprisonment.
He is a convicted war criminal, this is a fact.
Then you are obviously free to argue that this was unfair, that he had been mistreated etc..
Regards,
Alessandro

 

[Alberto Gianfranco]

Let us not forget that Mr Peiper had "practice" in Boves near Cuneo in Italy in 1943 and 1944 less known "act of war" but which has cost the lives of 45 innocent Italian citizens

 

[Johan]

I find it amazing that there is not one photograph of Peiper at the BOB, since it seems that there are many of him taken before and after the battle. I read somewhere that Peiper was the poster child of Germany, being photographed and filmed everywhere he went, but unfortunately it seems, not in the Ardennes 44.

During the first days when the Kampfgruppe advanced, Peiper seems to have been rather bad-tempered and frustrated, had some heated arguments with some people fe the commander of the Fallschirmjäger etc : guess he was not in the mood at all to pose for a Kriegsberichter and would rather tell them to piss off.
Later, when the Kampfgruppe got stuck in La Gleize, Peiper spend most of the time directing the battle from a basement or cellar where he had his HQ. I'm not sure there were still any Kriegsberichter around then, as the two guys who followed the Leibstandarte and who took the pictures and films at Kaiserbaracke, Poteau etc. and also Stoumont, were POW after december 19th.

... But even though elusive, Peiper sure was in the Ardennes in december 1944, in the La Gleize museum they still have a cardboard folder that belonged to him, and in which he probably kept documents and maps ... I have seen it, the name Joachim Peiper is penned on it in a rather schoolboy-ish handwriting, straight as if written on a ruler ... eerie.


Note also that the best photographic material of the Germans (the ambush at Poteau) was in most cases posed : the soldiers you see are real enough, but they "reenact" their own actions once more for the photographer and cameraman who films them from the best angle etc.
It seems that the footage taken at Stoumont on the 19th was genuine action.

 

[Carlos69]

I hope for the sake of the American soldiers in the picture he's not Pieper.
Brian

Brian Peiper did not go around shooting POWs ... And why mention that here ?

This is for model soldiers and painting ... Not politics ?!

 

[Carlos69]

Ortigara You said it. HE DID NOT HANG ! Why was this ????!!!!!! If he blatantly went around killing POWs surely he would have !!!!

ALberto and lets NOT FORGET that this is a forum on painting little toy/model soldiers. NOT POLITICS !!!!!!!! WHY do we keep having to have these replys on INOCENT THREADS REGARDS PAINTING ??!!!!!!!!! When some body posts work of an RAF pilot etc Do you think it ok for replys of them killing INOCENT Germans/FRench etc ??? WE DON'T NEED TO HEAR THAT HERE ! COME ON ! Srt it out

LET'S start up a politics thread so ALL can batter each other as to who was killed who was murdered what civvys were caught up etc ...

YOU GUYS OFFER NOTHING to these threads it's about time you were banned - TAKE ya' history lessons else where dont want to hear it !!!!!!!!

SG sorry again but this crap really is getting out of hand.

 

[brian]

Ortigara You said it. HE DID NOT HANG ! Why was this ????!!!!!! If he blatantly went around killing POWs surely he would have !!!!

ALberto and lets NOT FORGET that this is a forum on painting little toy/model soldiers. NOT POLITICS !!!!!!!! WHY do we keep having to have these replys on INOCENT THREADS REGARDS PAINTING ??!!!!!!!!! When some body posts work of an RAF pilot etc Do you think it ok for replys of them killing INOCENT Germans/FRench etc ??? WE DON'T NEED TO HEAR THAT HERE ! COME ON ! Srt it out

LET'S start up a politics thread so ALL can batter each other as to who was killed who was murdered what civvys were caught up etc ...

YOU GUYS OFFER NOTHING to these threads it's about time you were banned - TAKE ya' history lessons else where dont want to hear it !!!!!!!!

SG sorry again but this crap really is getting out of hand.

I totally agree with you Carlos that Peiper didn't shoot any Pow's but nether did Adolph Hitler or his many croonies.For your information Carlos i've never posted anything regarding personalities before and i thought that this was a hobby that represents historical "little toy/model soldiers" I don't see where you get the politics from as i was just stating my opinion on a very nasty piece of work who was summary executed in the 1970's and the relatives of these american soldiers in the photograph are probably still alive so i thought it a bit insensitive IMO.Everyone is entitled to their opinion,including yourself, but maybe not as you would ban anybody with their "history lessons" threads.
PS RAF pilots followed orders Peiper issued orders.

 

[Carlos69]

Brian what a load of crap !!!! Peiper wasn't executed but murdered in the 70's !

 

[Carlos69]

+ Brian have an opinion no prob, but my point is why bang on when its a painting thread ?

 

[Alberto Gianfranco]

The tread on the uniform of Peiper begins with a "to mark the anniversary of the offensive in the Ardennes."
The friend who decided to do this painting Peiper's right to do so and I respect his decision ... is history ... as history is what happened to American prisoners .... Even what he did Peiper Boves is history ... I only told part of the history of Peiper that someone does not know.
I'm not talking about politics ... but of history .... I paint every kind of subject and subject as they are free to do as it is those who started the tread ... I do not judge nor the person who is neither ... painting of the figures I want to paint a piece of history .... I'll leave the politics to altri.Aggiungo only one thing ... personal freedom is beautiful ... you can do everything .... but must stop when you get where it begins that of others.

 

[Carlos69]

Alberto your only comment to the thread was that of A negative nature adding more to the war crimes comments. NOTHING of value to this post. It is NOT a thread regarding WAR CRIMES ETC !

 

[Alberto Gianfranco]

Why is this your argument was perhaps help the tread?

 

[Johan]

?

I thought we were trying to reconstruct here how Peiper as CO of the 1. SS Panzer regt may have appeared during the latter half of december 1944 ? So that a fellow modeller of ours can place a figure of him in a vignette or a diorama ?

Why then hijacking this thread to express your disapproval of this historical character, who was, I agree, not a saint ?
Do you expect that War is all just an exciting beautiful story about noble heroes fighting inhuman vilains ? The horrible truth is that it's all about men like you and me trying to kill other men like you and me. So get real, and try to control your emotions a bit, instead of trying to get attention by writing biased comments that are half unfounded.

I would say one last thing : I would not approve if someone was to post here pictures of a concentration camp guard beating a jew to death, I don't see the point of representing that in miniature unless the modeller of it is a maniac who desperately needs medical treatment, but if we're going to avoid altogether representing German troops in the Ardennes offensive, then we might as well go all the way and totally limit ourselves from now on to representing only UNO troops giving humanitarian aid.

 

[Sturm Grenadier]

Hello Everyone, First, I wish you all a safe and happy New Year. This thread seems to have started the Battle of the Planeteers. I would like to say it was not my intention to offend, hurt, or bring back any bad memories for anyone. I was trying to pose a question on unifom accuracy on Jochen Peiper during the Battle of the Bulge. There are no known photographs. I did my research through many books and the internet and finally thought I had found one, that is when I posted the image to you guys to see if you agreed or not. Some of the responses were favorable, and helpful, which I thought was what this site was all about, but I did'nt expect all the political backlash. I am fully aware of the all the facts, accusations, and myths, about Peiper, the Battle of the Bulge is one of my favorites to study. This is why I was planning to do a display of different figures, Americans, German, and British, and call it Inside the Bulge, for competitions and shows. My main interest in figure painting is WWII, but I will paint other eras as well if the figures are interesting and well detailed. In regards to Peiper, If I were to paint a figure of him in a white padded snowsuit, standing next to wedgie of a Tiger II, how many of you would jump at the chance to criticise and demand photographic proof?, instead of what the model or figure looks like. I'm hesitant to post a Waffen SS figure to the site, because of all backlash it might recieve. not to how its painted or tips to help me improve it. Carlos69 has a Thread on this very subject, and I agree with him. Lets keep politics to the politicians and not to figures, that we all love to paint. Regards SG

 

[T50]

Guys,
We all are free to discuss things here of course. No one is saying otherwise.

BUT let's focus on the original topic and not drag the thread off topic.
The original poster asked what Peiper wore during the Battle of the Bulge,
not for a 9th grade history lesson.

If you feel so strongly about things, start your own thread and exchange posts
with people who shares the same interest instead of interrupting other's thread
like this.