WIP Dinosaurs - my 1st WIP
- Thread starter Pumpkineater
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Pumpkineater
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again thank you all dear people, you really helped me out tons. I started with some models. more to follow in a WIP topic ( I think maybe that might be more handy ?). anyway, again thank you all, it means the world to me .
Hi there
Nice start on these , If I may I would put a wash over to bring out the skin even more the go in and highlight by drybrushing
Look forward to the V Bench ( WIP )
Glad he posts have been helpful
Happy benchtime
Nap
Nice start on these , If I may I would put a wash over to bring out the skin even more the go in and highlight by drybrushing
Look forward to the V Bench ( WIP )
Glad he posts have been helpful
Happy benchtime
Nap
Pumpkineater
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- Joined
- Oct 4, 2013
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- 23
Dear Harto,
sorry for bugging you again; but you wrote "I then switched over to oil paints. Because the base is acrylic, you can muck around as much as you like with the oils and they won't mar the underlying paint job. I first applied a general wash of brown oil colour which helped bring out all the wrinkles etc."
what kind of brown ? a dark brown or general basic brown ?
Heya Nap, yeah help has been tremendous, I am so happy with it, and having so much fun painting now, it's amazing and I am so grateful.
yes the wash and all will also happen, just laying down the basics and wanted to show you dear people how happy I am and enjoying this
sorry for bugging you again; but you wrote "I then switched over to oil paints. Because the base is acrylic, you can muck around as much as you like with the oils and they won't mar the underlying paint job. I first applied a general wash of brown oil colour which helped bring out all the wrinkles etc."
what kind of brown ? a dark brown or general basic brown ?
Heya Nap, yeah help has been tremendous, I am so happy with it, and having so much fun painting now, it's amazing and I am so grateful.
yes the wash and all will also happen, just laying down the basics and wanted to show you dear people how happy I am and enjoying this
Dear Harto,
sorry for bugging you again; but you wrote "I then switched over to oil paints. Because the base is acrylic, you can muck around as much as you like with the oils and they won't mar the underlying paint job. I first applied a general wash of brown oil colour which helped bring out all the wrinkles etc."
what kind of brown ? a dark brown or general basic brown ?
Heya Nap, yeah help has been tremendous, I am so happy with it, and having so much fun painting now, it's amazing and I am so grateful.
yes the wash and all will also happen, just laying down the basics and wanted to show you dear people how happy I am and enjoying this
Those colour schemes are looking really good!
Looking at your colours I would try a dark brown on the first figure, like a burnt sienna or raw umber. I'd usually try and pick a wash that you can apply to the whole figure as that tends to help blend the three base colours together, so you want to pick something that will work with your darkest base colour. On the second figure, I'd be inclined to try a dark green rather than brown but either should work. Remember to use something like odourless white spirits for mixing the wash as you don't want to use a thinner that could affect the underlying acrylic, so nothing too "hot".
Pumpkineater
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- 23
thank you so much for the fast reply and the kind words. I was merely following your lead so to speak
I used tamiya paints on these. but I rather play safe and varnish them with alclad gloss, because whenever I try to do the wash thing with spirits, even with varnish, sometimes it goes horribly wrong and the paint gets destroyed. I am really a noob or starter with oilwashes, so I am nervous about this to be honest.
after I apply the wash and let it dry (how long?) do I then remove the majority of it by wiping it away with a cloth or cottonbuds? and wouldnt the green wash on the 2nd model be a wrong color for the pale underside of the model, like the belly and all, or would that be ok ? or does that need an extra brown wash?
sorry for all the questions again, I am probably overthinking things, but I am kinda nervous and wish to do it okay without any unnessesary happy mistakes.
thanks again for everything
!thank you so much for the fast reply and the kind words. I was merely following your lead so to speak
I used tamiya paints on these. but I rather play safe and varnish them with alclad gloss, because whenever I try to do the wash thing with spirits, even with varnish, sometimes it goes horribly wrong and the paint gets destroyed. I am really a noob or starter with oilwashes, so I am nervous about this to be honest.
after I apply the wash and let it dry (how long?) do I then remove the majority of it by wiping it away with a cloth or cottonbuds? and wouldnt the green wash on the 2nd model be a wrong color for the pale underside of the model, like the belly and all, or would that be ok ? or does that need an extra brown wash?
sorry for all the questions again, I am probably overthinking things, but I am kinda nervous and wish to do it okay without any unnessesary happy mistakes.
thanks again for everything
No problem at all. One of the most difficult things I found in painting was figuring out the interactions between various brands of paint, various brands of varnish and various thinners. Can't say I have had great experience with the alclad varnishes to be honest, I may have got a bad batch but I tried them and they always seemed to remain a bit tacky and never quite fully cure. Likewise Tamiya acrylics are not really true water based acrylics unlike say Vallejo so you will find that various manufacturers who make specific thinners for acrylics will flag that they won't work with Tamiya acrylics and I know many people thin the Tamiya acrylics with isopropyl alcohol. There are probably a lot of people on this forum who can jump in with more detailed advice but the critical thing is understanding for each paint what the "carrier" is that the manufacturer has used which is the solution which carries the individual paint pigments. This is different from what "thinner" you can use with the paint to dilute it. You also need to understand how "hot" a particular carrier or thinner is in terms of how aggressively it will attack paint and attempt to dilute it when it is placed on or mixed into paint. "Hotness" typically ranges from pure distilled water which is the least reactive up to lacquer thinner which will dissolve pretty much anything even an existing paint job.
This can all seem very overwhelming and scientific and leave you feeling very nervous about trying effects which call for multiple layers and never quite being sure how things will turn out as interactions definitely vary from brand to brand. If I'm trying something for the first time, I'd typically replicate my paint job on something scrap (I keep Starbucks coffee cup lids just for this purpose). I then paint the lid at the same time as my model and if I'm trying a new wash or varnish, I try it on the lid first and see if I get a bad reaction rather than trying it on my model paint job first.
Turning specifically to what you are doing. I know that many aircraft and tank modellers typically varnish their pieces before applying washes but I usually prefer to apply oil washes over a matt finish and typically find that spraying the model with scale 75 paints or Vallejo will leave you with a nice flat finish which then takes an oil wash well without the need to apply anything over the top of it first. Also when you get to drybrushing, you will want a matt surface anyway as drybrushing works best on a matt surface. I think aircraft modellers for example will use oils to pick out panel lines and will usually apply a gloss varnish coat first then apply a quite thick coat of oils along the panel lines and then wipe off the excess leaving the oil in the panel lines. Here we are going for a much more diluted wash so the paint is quite transparent and will run when you apply it, almost the consistency of water and you apply it using a large soft flat brush over the whole model just being careful to avoid too much pooling of the oil paint by watching how much wash you are putting on and how you orient the model as the wash runs into the recesses. A matt finish tends to improve the flow and controllability of the wash I find. You can build up the the intensity by applying multiple washes. Because you are using very diluted paint, the wash will appear to dry quite quickly but it is best to leave it for two or three days to dry thoroughly before you do anything else to it. You can use a tissue or cottonbud to gently remove any unwanted build-up or spills.
Oils are spirit based so you need a spirit based thinner to create the wash. I recommend buying odourless white spirit which is sold in most art supply shops because this is the least "hot" thinner that I have found for using with oils. The specific model manufacturer's branded enamel thinners (such as Revell, Tamiya X20 etc.) tend to have higher degrees of "hotness" and thus more risk of damaging an underlying paint job. I've also found that a number of the modelling products which are sold specifically as "washes" are also quite "hot" and can damage an underlying paintjob depending on the basecoat used. If you have already gloss coated the model then I'd spray something disposable with the same gloss coat and try the wash over it to see if it reacts. Alclad varnishes have a bit of an odd carrier as I recall and I think they make two types of gloss with one being called acqua gloss but even that they say you absolutely have to flush out of your airbrush immediately after using so it isn't pure waterbased is my guess. If you are going to varnish a model to protect it you again end up having to try and pick a varnish that won't react with the paint that it is being applied over or with what is going to be applied over the top of it.
Hope this is clear enough for you to figure out a way forward but happy to try and elaborate if necessary. If you want to clearcoat, I'd try a matt clearcoat first and then see if the wash works over it on a bit of scrap. I'd reckon you could get away with a dark green wash over light green if you are using a very diluted wash as I say but brown would also work.
Here are some pics of the T rex I mentioned. I painted it as a quick fun project for my son, it is washed entirely in a dark brown oil wash and drybrushed entirely in the same shade of yellow ochre oil which helped tone down the whole scheme, although you could in theory use different drybrush colours over the different basecoats.
Pumpkineater
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thank you for that new update and all that info again Harto, I really appreciate it so much and am so grateful for it, so, thank you .
I did some testpieces regarding the oilwash. but it seems I am stuck or need more than once coat of varnish. I used the ABT 502 oils combined with MIG thinner to create the washes. applied them and tried to gently clean up the next day with cottonbuds. but some areas got damaged by that and it even got damaged to the pure plastic of the model.
regarding the varnish, I used . AK Satin, AK matt, and Alclad Gloss. so I really am stuck and dont know what to do now. do I need several coats of varnish ? do I need another thinner, or mineral spirits? I really dont understand the differences between thinner and mineral spirits either to be honest.
I did some testpieces regarding the oilwash. but it seems I am stuck or need more than once coat of varnish. I used the ABT 502 oils combined with MIG thinner to create the washes. applied them and tried to gently clean up the next day with cottonbuds. but some areas got damaged by that and it even got damaged to the pure plastic of the model.
regarding the varnish, I used . AK Satin, AK matt, and Alclad Gloss. so I really am stuck and dont know what to do now. do I need several coats of varnish ? do I need another thinner, or mineral spirits? I really dont understand the differences between thinner and mineral spirits either to be honest.
theBaron
A Fixture
Think of it this way: Thinners are liquids used to thin paints, and mineral spirits is just one kind of thinner. It's distilled from petroleum, and it's used frequently to thin oil paints and enamel paints (eg, Testor's enamels in the little square bottles, or the now-defunct Model Master line of enamels).
Other thinners include:
- Turpentine, which is distilled from pine tree resins. It's also used to thin oil and enamel paints.
- Turpenoid, which is also distilled from plant resins. It's also used to thin oil paints, but it's popular with those who are sensitive to the fumes that other thinners give off.
- Lacquer thinner, which is used with lacquers, but also used by some to thin some acrylic paints when airbrushing, to achieve a matte finish
- Water, which can be used to thin water-based paints, such as water-based acrylics (eg, Andrea, Vallejo are water-based.)
- Isopropyl alcohol can also be used to thin water-based paints, and alcohol-based paints.
When you look for a thinner, read the label. Some companies can have various thinners, to work with the different types of paint that I mentioned above. The manufacturers will often indicate how to use the product, and with which types of paints. Also, many manufacturers of paints make thinners and other products to go with their paints, and in some cases, you will get your best results if you use the proprietary products together. For example, among other paints, I use Tamiya's acrylics. They are formulated for airbrushing, so they are meant to be thinned, and that goes for brushing them by hand. After trial and error, and reading some good tips online, I learned to use Tamiya's own proprietary acrylic thinner with their paints, whether hand-brushing or airbrushing.
I hope that clarifies the question of thinners and mineral spirits. I'm sure others will have better info, especially where I've forgotten to mention something or from their experience with all of these types of product.
Prost!
Brad
sorry to hear the paint and thinner combinations are causing difficulties.
For future reference, one combination which I have been using with total success is Vallejo/Scale 75 basecoats then artists oils mixed with artists odourless turpentine for the wash mixed very thin so it just flows into the cracks and crevices so there is virtually no need to wipe the wash at all as it only settles into the gaps. With this combo there is also no need to varnish at all.
Some general observations and then let's see if we can fix your specific combination problem:
for oil paints I usually buy the ones made for artists from an art shop and usually go for the highest quality since that means the pigments are ground very fine, perfect for washes. you only need a decent dark brown and a black when starting out. Items specifically targeted at modellers can often be quite expensive and little more than repackaged materials from the world of picture painting (just my two cents worth). I have found that some Abt 502 oils for example leave more residue than typical artists oils. That said their "shadow brown" is one of my favourites for washes. Brad is right in that trying to stick with one manufacturer across your products certainly helps in terms of compatibility. On this score I really recommend you having a look at the VMS website (I am not associated with them in any way, just came across their products and keep buying more). They seem to understand the chemistry behind their products and tweak it for modellers so if it tells you to use their varnish before using their washes, you will find that to be a safe combination.
I'm not sue what type of Mig Thinner you are using but as I have mentioned, I find a lot of their stuff quite hot with a tendency to cut into underlying paint jobs. The one exception is their "Thinner for Washes" which I think is made for their weathering pastels but since this is basically odourless white spirit, I buy the odourless stuff from where I buy my paint. I wouldn't get too worried about the different types of thinners, just be aware that some are "hotter" than others in terms of their ability to dissolve paint.
Now where I have a paint job which I absolutely need to protect and am going to put some aggressive stuff over the top of, I would usually seal it with a lacquer varnish. My go to is "Mr Hobby - MRSuper Clear UV cut". Not sure if you have access to this. Once dried it is super hard and very resistant to most thinners except lacquer thinner itself. Beware though that this stuff is super hot, and if you read the warnings it will tell you not to apply it over decals, acrylics etc. The key is to make the first couple of coats little more than a very light dusting which will dry off almost as it hits the model. so hold the spray can about a foot away, move it quickly over the model, so you are basically dusting the varnish on - you do not want a wet coat of this stuff sitting on the model or the decals/underlying paint coat will bubble up usually. Allow a good 30 mins between coats and don't try and fiddle with it between coats - it can sometimes look a bit off immediately after spraying but dries and settles well. Once you have a couple of dusting coats on you can then apply a heavier coat over and it should be fine. Once again, I'd practice on a coffee cup lid or similar with your preferred basecoat already sprayed and dried on. For washes, I'd use the matt version. They also make semi gloss and gloss. I have used the gloss for model cars because it creates a super hard finish which you can then sand and polish with ease. Wear a mask or spray this stuff outside and well away from any naked flames - one tip for identifying lacquer based products is they really stink because they are super volatile and should not ever be inhaled!
If this sounds too scary then you could always try putting an acrylic wash on these models rather than oils. I wouldn't use Tamiya acrylics for this but any of the ones that come in dropper bottles and are thinable just with water should work. Because the wash will dry very fast you need to keep it to small areas and wipe off any excess immediately. For acrylic washes it is also important to have a matt surface otherwise the capillary action which you need to spread the wash over the model just won't work. Pretty sure you would be fine putting such a wash over a base of flat Tamiya acyrylics as they are pretty impervious to water once dry. You can also add some acrylic retarder to the wash to give you a longer drying time if you have access to this (again, art supply stores will sell it). For an acrylic wash you need to mix it a bit thicker than an oil wash typically to get a similar effect, Id suggest you experiment with some small bottles and a dropper and mix in varying amounts of water until you get a mix that flows well and leaves enough pigment on the model. I'd start with say 75% water and 25% paint and add or subtract more water until you get the effect you are looking for.
Hope this is helpful.
For future reference, one combination which I have been using with total success is Vallejo/Scale 75 basecoats then artists oils mixed with artists odourless turpentine for the wash mixed very thin so it just flows into the cracks and crevices so there is virtually no need to wipe the wash at all as it only settles into the gaps. With this combo there is also no need to varnish at all.
Some general observations and then let's see if we can fix your specific combination problem:
for oil paints I usually buy the ones made for artists from an art shop and usually go for the highest quality since that means the pigments are ground very fine, perfect for washes. you only need a decent dark brown and a black when starting out. Items specifically targeted at modellers can often be quite expensive and little more than repackaged materials from the world of picture painting (just my two cents worth). I have found that some Abt 502 oils for example leave more residue than typical artists oils. That said their "shadow brown" is one of my favourites for washes. Brad is right in that trying to stick with one manufacturer across your products certainly helps in terms of compatibility. On this score I really recommend you having a look at the VMS website (I am not associated with them in any way, just came across their products and keep buying more). They seem to understand the chemistry behind their products and tweak it for modellers so if it tells you to use their varnish before using their washes, you will find that to be a safe combination.
I'm not sue what type of Mig Thinner you are using but as I have mentioned, I find a lot of their stuff quite hot with a tendency to cut into underlying paint jobs. The one exception is their "Thinner for Washes" which I think is made for their weathering pastels but since this is basically odourless white spirit, I buy the odourless stuff from where I buy my paint. I wouldn't get too worried about the different types of thinners, just be aware that some are "hotter" than others in terms of their ability to dissolve paint.
Now where I have a paint job which I absolutely need to protect and am going to put some aggressive stuff over the top of, I would usually seal it with a lacquer varnish. My go to is "Mr Hobby - MRSuper Clear UV cut". Not sure if you have access to this. Once dried it is super hard and very resistant to most thinners except lacquer thinner itself. Beware though that this stuff is super hot, and if you read the warnings it will tell you not to apply it over decals, acrylics etc. The key is to make the first couple of coats little more than a very light dusting which will dry off almost as it hits the model. so hold the spray can about a foot away, move it quickly over the model, so you are basically dusting the varnish on - you do not want a wet coat of this stuff sitting on the model or the decals/underlying paint coat will bubble up usually. Allow a good 30 mins between coats and don't try and fiddle with it between coats - it can sometimes look a bit off immediately after spraying but dries and settles well. Once you have a couple of dusting coats on you can then apply a heavier coat over and it should be fine. Once again, I'd practice on a coffee cup lid or similar with your preferred basecoat already sprayed and dried on. For washes, I'd use the matt version. They also make semi gloss and gloss. I have used the gloss for model cars because it creates a super hard finish which you can then sand and polish with ease. Wear a mask or spray this stuff outside and well away from any naked flames - one tip for identifying lacquer based products is they really stink because they are super volatile and should not ever be inhaled!
If this sounds too scary then you could always try putting an acrylic wash on these models rather than oils. I wouldn't use Tamiya acrylics for this but any of the ones that come in dropper bottles and are thinable just with water should work. Because the wash will dry very fast you need to keep it to small areas and wipe off any excess immediately. For acrylic washes it is also important to have a matt surface otherwise the capillary action which you need to spread the wash over the model just won't work. Pretty sure you would be fine putting such a wash over a base of flat Tamiya acyrylics as they are pretty impervious to water once dry. You can also add some acrylic retarder to the wash to give you a longer drying time if you have access to this (again, art supply stores will sell it). For an acrylic wash you need to mix it a bit thicker than an oil wash typically to get a similar effect, Id suggest you experiment with some small bottles and a dropper and mix in varying amounts of water until you get a mix that flows well and leaves enough pigment on the model. I'd start with say 75% water and 25% paint and add or subtract more water until you get the effect you are looking for.
Hope this is helpful.
What a great response from members to this WIP
Look forward to some updates
Happy benchtime
Nap
Look forward to some updates
Happy benchtime
Nap
Pumpkineater
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- Oct 4, 2013
- Messages
- 23
Dear Harto (and other people of course),
thank you for the detailed reply again.
I tried the acrylic wash and wiped it away, and try to do that gently with my finger, but it swiped away not only tha wash but also the paint and even the primer. I really have bad luck with this hobby, it almost seems I am cursed.
I applied a wash of Games Workshop sepia ink mixed with vallejo glaze medium, ratio 1:1. the model was primed with Games Workshop's wraith bone contrast paint, and shadows were added with AK's black primer. on top of that I airbrushed two coats of Createx Tim Gore bloodline paint. the paint got more than several days to cure in each step, so I really dont understand what went wrong.
I am also reading really bad things about the Varnishes from AK.
I just wish I had a shopping list of stuff to get. i.e. if I paint with tamiya paints; what primer to use , and what varnish to use when I am applying the oilwashes. if I paint with vallejo , also what primer to sue, and what varnish to use when also applying the oilwashes.
I probably really have to stick to the brands ? so when I paint with tamiya paints , us tamiya primer and tamiya varnish ? but tamiya doesnt have a proper varnish I understood? so Mr Gunzes varnishes maybe , and then their gloss one for the varnish needed for the oilwashes and streaking ?
and for vallejo ? what primer would be good for that ? since I really have tons of problems with their primers you can airbrush ? maybe games workshops spraycan primers ? or would tamiya also be fine for that ? or MR gunzes airbrush primers seem really good ?
also regarding the thinners and white spirits. I can get AK's white spirirt, and odourless thinner 2 kinds it seems. I also added a picture of the MIG thinner I have. it's all so confusing on trying to figure out what I need for what.
I was thinking about coating the models in several coats of alclad gloss, but would that flood the details and crevices with varnish? and thus create les detail on the model when applying the oilwashes?
i.e. simpy said; what do I need for the job. I really would like to post progress pictures of the models but I am stuck at the moment, and the test models I have done got their paintjobs detroyed by the thinner oil treatment.
thank you for the detailed reply again.
I tried the acrylic wash and wiped it away, and try to do that gently with my finger, but it swiped away not only tha wash but also the paint and even the primer. I really have bad luck with this hobby, it almost seems I am cursed.
I applied a wash of Games Workshop sepia ink mixed with vallejo glaze medium, ratio 1:1. the model was primed with Games Workshop's wraith bone contrast paint, and shadows were added with AK's black primer. on top of that I airbrushed two coats of Createx Tim Gore bloodline paint. the paint got more than several days to cure in each step, so I really dont understand what went wrong.
I am also reading really bad things about the Varnishes from AK.
I just wish I had a shopping list of stuff to get. i.e. if I paint with tamiya paints; what primer to use , and what varnish to use when I am applying the oilwashes. if I paint with vallejo , also what primer to sue, and what varnish to use when also applying the oilwashes.
I probably really have to stick to the brands ? so when I paint with tamiya paints , us tamiya primer and tamiya varnish ? but tamiya doesnt have a proper varnish I understood? so Mr Gunzes varnishes maybe , and then their gloss one for the varnish needed for the oilwashes and streaking ?
and for vallejo ? what primer would be good for that ? since I really have tons of problems with their primers you can airbrush ? maybe games workshops spraycan primers ? or would tamiya also be fine for that ? or MR gunzes airbrush primers seem really good ?
also regarding the thinners and white spirits. I can get AK's white spirirt, and odourless thinner 2 kinds it seems. I also added a picture of the MIG thinner I have. it's all so confusing on trying to figure out what I need for what.
I was thinking about coating the models in several coats of alclad gloss, but would that flood the details and crevices with varnish? and thus create les detail on the model when applying the oilwashes?
i.e. simpy said; what do I need for the job. I really would like to post progress pictures of the models but I am stuck at the moment, and the test models I have done got their paintjobs detroyed by the thinner oil treatment.
Pumpkineater
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- Oct 4, 2013
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oh and this one
Hmm, let's start with some basics and take it a step at a time.
Primer. I'm not familiar with the Games Workshop line but sounds like you are using regular paint for your "priming". Looking at the pics of the models you are painting I'm also not sure what material they are made out of but they look like somewhat shiny plastic. You should always "prime" a model with a specific primer which is sold as such and which is formulated for that purpose as it will grip to the model and provide a solid basecoat for what is going on top. If you can rub your primer off with a finger it isn't doing its job. With the type of figures you are painting they should probably first be washed in a mild detergent and left to dry. For priming I pretty much exclusively use Tamiya Fine Surface primer out of a rattle can. Never had any problems with it and can put pretty much anything over the top of it. There are two exceptions to this. 1. Vinyl kits - these don't respond well to enamel/spirit based paints being applied directly onto them (you can tell because these paints will never seem to dry when applied directly onto vinyl and always remain tacky). For these kits you want to apply an acrylic primer first - for the Horizon Velociraptor I used Humbrol acrylic primer again out of a rattle can which worked great. 2. Difficult surfaces such as shiny metal - if I find the Tamiya primer is having trouble adhering to the model then I use a product from the car automotive industry called "acid etch primer" Halfords in the UK sells it in a rattle can but most auto paint supply places will have a similar product. This is a primer containing trace amounts of acid which "etches" into the surface you are applying it to thus creating a slightly irregular surface at a microscopic level and enabling the paint to grip to that surface with a very strong bond. This will give you a slightly rougher surface than standard modelling primers but is pretty much bulletproof once applied. These are the only three primers I ever use. I tried airbrush primers but one issue you will face is by their nature primers need to be quite thick and if you thin them down they are less effective at the job they were made for. Accordingly, to airbrush them effectively you tend to need quite a large needle/hole size and frankly one larger than most model type airbrushes. Take a look at this tutorial from Paul Budzik which frankly changed the way I approach airbrushing entirely.
Pick a figure, wash it in detergent, prime it with Tamiya spray or you could try the Games Workshop spray primer (since these seem to be Games Workshop figures? ) and check the primer is drying ok and holding onto the figure. Also use the same primer on a scrap model so we have something safe to test on for next steps.
Primer. I'm not familiar with the Games Workshop line but sounds like you are using regular paint for your "priming". Looking at the pics of the models you are painting I'm also not sure what material they are made out of but they look like somewhat shiny plastic. You should always "prime" a model with a specific primer which is sold as such and which is formulated for that purpose as it will grip to the model and provide a solid basecoat for what is going on top. If you can rub your primer off with a finger it isn't doing its job. With the type of figures you are painting they should probably first be washed in a mild detergent and left to dry. For priming I pretty much exclusively use Tamiya Fine Surface primer out of a rattle can. Never had any problems with it and can put pretty much anything over the top of it. There are two exceptions to this. 1. Vinyl kits - these don't respond well to enamel/spirit based paints being applied directly onto them (you can tell because these paints will never seem to dry when applied directly onto vinyl and always remain tacky). For these kits you want to apply an acrylic primer first - for the Horizon Velociraptor I used Humbrol acrylic primer again out of a rattle can which worked great. 2. Difficult surfaces such as shiny metal - if I find the Tamiya primer is having trouble adhering to the model then I use a product from the car automotive industry called "acid etch primer" Halfords in the UK sells it in a rattle can but most auto paint supply places will have a similar product. This is a primer containing trace amounts of acid which "etches" into the surface you are applying it to thus creating a slightly irregular surface at a microscopic level and enabling the paint to grip to that surface with a very strong bond. This will give you a slightly rougher surface than standard modelling primers but is pretty much bulletproof once applied. These are the only three primers I ever use. I tried airbrush primers but one issue you will face is by their nature primers need to be quite thick and if you thin them down they are less effective at the job they were made for. Accordingly, to airbrush them effectively you tend to need quite a large needle/hole size and frankly one larger than most model type airbrushes. Take a look at this tutorial from Paul Budzik which frankly changed the way I approach airbrushing entirely.
Pick a figure, wash it in detergent, prime it with Tamiya spray or you could try the Games Workshop spray primer (since these seem to be Games Workshop figures? ) and check the primer is drying ok and holding onto the figure. Also use the same primer on a scrap model so we have something safe to test on for next steps.
Pumpkineater
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- Joined
- Oct 4, 2013
- Messages
- 23
thanks again so much Harto, I really appreciate this so much. you're putting so much time and effort in this, I am really really so grateful for that, you could have also said google it or search the topics(and believe me I did so many times), so yes I am very thankful that you're doing this to help me out. hopefully other people read this as well and get some great help/onfo from it . yes they are games workshop models and hard grey plastic so to speak.I will order the tamiya primer this week, and will wash and prepare some models for the testing in the meantime. I will let you know when I have everything up and ready for the next steps. again thank you so much, stay safe and have fun.
Hi Guys
A personal thanks to all for the responses here ...very detailed
I can't add much except I always wash prior to priming in a auto primer or Games workshop before painting with acrylics
One thing I will say is your not cursed but learning a lot ......what the hobby and PF is all about
Happy benchtime
Nap
A personal thanks to all for the responses here ...very detailed
I can't add much except I always wash prior to priming in a auto primer or Games workshop before painting with acrylics
One thing I will say is your not cursed but learning a lot ......what the hobby and PF is all about
Happy benchtime
Nap
No problem at all. I feel your frustration and want to ensure you manage to get the best out of our wonderful hobby. The last thing anyone needs is to be feeling apprehensive or worried about outcomes when you are trying to be creative. So hopefully we will get you to a point where you can feel comfortable with the materials you are using and be able to enjoy the process. I was lucky enough to have some wonderful "old timers" take an interest in my work and help me when I was starting out and I always try and pay that back. I find that whilst there is a lot of information on the internet there is sometimes too much and often conflicting advice. What I will try and do is follow what you are doing with the same products hopefully so I can better figure out any issues that arise. We have a Games Workshop store in HK so if you can let me know what figure line your stuff is from I can see if I can find something similar.
Nap, I have posted photos on the site before but is it possible to post short videos and are there are any size limits etc or do I need to link to a YouTube account or similar?
Kind Regards
John
Pumpkineater
Member
- Joined
- Oct 4, 2013
- Messages
- 23
Dear John,
thank you for the kind words and support.
I really miss the old days where I could walk into my favorite modelling stores, looking around at all the stuff(my fav store also imported garage kits from the USA, god I loved all of it), having a coffee and a smoke inside the store , asking and getting advice, also getting great tips from fellow customers in store. I miss those days.
yes the internet is awesome and there is lots to find (would never have found this awesome community without internet ! ) , but as you say, there is way too much and also a lot of conflicting and sometimes even false (well for me at least, since when I duplicate it it simply doesnt work). it's overwhelming, I have so much bookmarks, and saved pages and pics and what not, it makes one head spin and get confused fast.
the models I am painting is from the Seraphon line from Games Workshop, it are all kinda dinosaur based models with and Aztek theme.
next week I will have the tamiya primers ordered and what not, will keep you updated on the situation
have a great weekend !
thank you for the kind words and support.
I really miss the old days where I could walk into my favorite modelling stores, looking around at all the stuff(my fav store also imported garage kits from the USA, god I loved all of it), having a coffee and a smoke inside the store , asking and getting advice, also getting great tips from fellow customers in store. I miss those days.
yes the internet is awesome and there is lots to find (would never have found this awesome community without internet
! ) , but as you say, there is way too much and also a lot of conflicting and sometimes even false (well for me at least, since when I duplicate it it simply doesnt work). it's overwhelming, I have so much bookmarks, and saved pages and pics and what not, it makes one head spin and get confused fast.the models I am painting is from the Seraphon line from Games Workshop, it are all kinda dinosaur based models with and Aztek theme.
next week I will have the tamiya primers ordered and what not, will keep you updated on the situation
have a great weekend
!
Hi John
As always great reply
Regarding video wasn't sure but checked and the reply is that Direct upload to the forum is not supported, but you can embed videos from other sources.
Use the 'film' icon when posting a new message. It says that it allows different sources (facebook,youtube,vimeo...) to embed the video. One can also just include just a link.
I normally up lad with a link
Hope this helps
Happy benchtime to all
Nap
Pumpkineater
Member
- Joined
- Oct 4, 2013
- Messages
- 23
Dear John,
thank you for the kind words and support.
I really miss the old days where I could walk into my favorite modelling stores, looking around at all the stuff(my fav store also imported garage kits from the USA, god I loved all of it), having a coffee and a smoke inside the store , asking and getting advice, also getting great tips from fellow customers in store. I miss those days.
yes the internet is awesome and there is lots to find (would never have found this awesome community without internet ! ) , but as you say, there is way too much and also a lot of conflicting and sometimes even false (well for me at least, since when I duplicate it it simply doesnt work). it's overwhelming, I have so much bookmarks, and saved pages and pics and what not, it makes one head spin and get confused fast.
the models I am painting is from the Seraphon line from Games Workshop, it are all kinda dinosaur based models with and Aztek theme.
next week I will have the tamiya primers ordered and what not, will keep you updated on the situation
have a great weekend !
thank you for the kind words and support.
I really miss the old days where I could walk into my favorite modelling stores, looking around at all the stuff(my fav store also imported garage kits from the USA, god I loved all of it), having a coffee and a smoke inside the store , asking and getting advice, also getting great tips from fellow customers in store. I miss those days.
yes the internet is awesome and there is lots to find (would never have found this awesome community without internet
! ) , but as you say, there is way too much and also a lot of conflicting and sometimes even false (well for me at least, since when I duplicate it it simply doesnt work). it's overwhelming, I have so much bookmarks, and saved pages and pics and what not, it makes one head spin and get confused fast.the models I am painting is from the Seraphon line from Games Workshop, it are all kinda dinosaur based models with and Aztek theme.
next week I will have the tamiya primers ordered and what not, will keep you updated on the situation
have a great weekend
!
