Embroidery and other fine work

[carpo]

Hi all - I was curious at to what techniques people are using to reproduce embroidery and other features on uniforms/sheilds/heraldry etc.
I am currently painting a Samurai and have had a rather difficult time of laying out a half decent pattern.
(it can be seen on my vBench)
On the orange sleeve I laid out the pattern with a very thin ink pen and then built up the pattern by brushing on gold highlights.
The chest of this figure is reproduced using Gouache applied by brush. (Anyone out there using Gouache?)
I cannot draw to save myself and I was wondering if anyone out there was using a technique that helps them achieve complicated patterns.
I have considered laying out a design in pencil.
Any ideas appreciated!!!
Carpo

 

[KeithP]

Paul-

Thanks for posting this question (thanks for the PM, too) as I have the same interest on a 90 mm moslem knight. I wanted to add some "rococo" type designs to his clothing and armor but lack the skill with oil or acrylics.

BTW, I have used pencils with a small amount of success. The texture of the pencil patterns leave a bit to be desired though. A bit rough...

Keith

 

[pkess]

A method that I use for heraldry is to copy the pattern to scale. I then rub the back of the paper with a soft lead pencil. I position the drawing on the figure or shield with paper medical tape because it won't leave adhesive when removed. I then go over the design with a pencil to transfer the outline of the image. I then paint as I would normally: undercoat in acrylics and final painting in oils.
For intricate patterns, I paint freehand. I paint the backgound color as if there is no pattern. I usually paint the shadows and highlights with more contrast than usual. After this dries , I start painting the pattern with the darkest shadow color, gradually working up to the highlight color in various layers. I use oils and do not thin the paints.
There was a good article in the last issue of Figurines on painting patterns.

 

[Einion]

Hi Paul, if you have trouble drawing then painting a pattern on a model is going to be a challenge as it's difficult 'drawing' with the tip of a brush on a three-dimensional surface even if you can draw well! The only way to improve is by practice of course and one of the best ways is to work off the figure at the same scale to get a feel for it; once you've done it once or twice it will seem a lot less daunting than it did at first, just like with most tricky techniques. If you can, photocopy or scan and print out the pattern you're looking to recreate at the right size, it's very useful having this to refer to as you paint.

The transfer method works well on flat surfaces but not so well on flowing drapery so here you might like to try sketching the design on the model using coloured pencils for getting the basic layout down. I prefer using them as you can work in a colour similar to the finished pattern and you don't have to worry about any shiny graphite lines being left behind after the painting is completed. If you use water-soluble pencils you can wipe off any excess with a damp brush (but only on waterproof paint of course!)

About gouache, they were used a bit in the old days by figure modellers. Rose paints are probably a little before your time and they were like gouache but I think there's a good reason they're not used much any more. They have some good qualities: they're very opaque and they flow off the brush nicely, but because they remain soluble there's always a risk of lifting paint you've already applied when applying subsequent coats and the surface is very prone to marring as you handle the figure or accidentally rub a tool on the surface as well. The matt finish is difficult to modify as well - for leather or skin for example - because you can't just brush over them the way you could with dried acrylics. If you want to stick with water cleanup but would prefer something a little more resilient casein paint handles similarly but becomes waterproof over time; there are also acrylic gouaches made by a couple of firms which I think are a better bet in the long run.

Einion

 

[amherbert]

Hi Einion

I was going to make a similar point about gouache!

Somehow, the first time I used some gouache, it worked very well. Since then, the solubility is a barrier I can't overcome. I wonder if they can be mixed with other water soluble paints for use though...

Andy

 

[carpo]

Hi all - thanks for the replies.
Colour pencils sound like a great ideat - and have used water soluble ones before - but not on figures - Why didn't I think of them????
I seal the gouaches with dullcoat so running isn't a problem
In face i have already applied a liveral wash over the work done so far with no problems at all!
I have used casein products too - and rate them very highly.
Carpo

 

[Einion]

Sealing with a waterproof overcoat is a good way of overcoming the solubility of gouache, I've airbrushed thinned acrylic medium in the same way - kind of gives you the best of both worlds. Another advantage I forgot to mention about coloured pencils is that they're softer than the average graphite pencil so they don't dig into paint as easily. They should work very well over Dullcoat, it's very tough.


Andy, yes you can mix most water-soluble paints together without any problems. Acrylic/vinyl colours are sensitive to changes in pH so you have to watch out for adverse interactions (the paint will usually 'curdle') but these are very rare and the effect is immediate so you'd know straight away.

Einion

 

[amherbert]

Thanks Einion.

Do you know if mixing gouache with acrylics makes them more durable or waterproof? I may have done this inadvertently the first time I used them...

Cheers
Andy

 

[Einion]

Yep, if you add enough acrylic to gouache you'll get something fairly waterproof (not 100% but decent enough) or in the other direction, if you add enough gouache to any acrylic or vinyl paints they can still be lifted with a wet brush.

You have to test a mix to see, some paints have more binder than others so with one colour 1:1 might do it while with another 1:3 might be necessary to get the characteristic you want.

Einion

 

[daredevil]

you can also try mixing the guache with an acrylic medium (matte or gloss) --it will have the same effect without adding extra color or bulking the body (consistancy) of the paint too much. If mixed judiciously, it should flow on quite nicely.
--daredevil