First Metal Figure

[daredevil]

Hi--I'm new here (duh--says 'newbie' under my avatar!)
I am currently painting my first metal figure (Soldier's "Knight of the Holy Grail" 64mm). It's a beautiful sculpt--lots of detail, hardly any cleanup required. I cleaned it & sprayed it with Tamiya grey primer. I was planning to use my ample supply of Liquitex acrylics, but after using them on another resin piece, I wasn't too happy with how they handled. Perhaps it was "pilot error" but I just couldn't get even coverage and a smooth flow of paint. So I ended up using Model Master enamels on the knight, which I've traditionally used on my 1/35 Vietnam War figures with pretty fair success.
Everything is going okay so far--though I can see the limitations of enamels on a figure of this size! I went through quite few posts in the "Painting" forum last night and noted that Vallejo acrylics was mentioned quite a bit. How do they compare to Andrea? I was thinking about buying the Andrea starter set offered on Squadron's website. Any comments?
Also, is the Tamiya primer the one I should be using for acrylics--or did a goof & forget to add an acrylic primer on top of that one?!!!
--Daredevil

 

[johnnyboy]

hi linda and welcome to this great site.well as far as primer goes i no a few guys here use tamiya and i definetly use it and i use vallejo and andrea paints.i like them both.i love andreas flat black.and vallejo are just awesome i heard there the same paint in diffrent bottles but i am not so sure.they are close but i think a little diffrent.i would like to see some pics in progress,if possible.also everyone here is real nice so any questions just ask.ok i hope i have helped a little take care johnny

 

[Automata]

Linda,

Vallejo and Andrea paints are very similar. I've noticed only one real difference: All the Andrea colors I have tried dry absolutely dead flat while Vallejo's range from very flat to slightly semi-gloss. I have mixed them with no problems. Both are very smooth and have good coverage with most colors.

If you are talking about the Andrea set that includes a figure, superglue, etc for $47, then I suppose that seems like an OK deal if you need the extra stuff. It seems to me, however, that grabbing 15 or so Vallejo's might be a better way to go. They are $2.75 at www.coloradominiatures.com. You can also buy them in packs of 16 for $39.

If you are obsessed with your paints being flat, you can pick up a couple of bottles of Andreas to augment the Vallejos. Prussian Blue and Napoleonic Green from Andrea will take care of the "problem" many shades of Vallejo blues and deeper greens have with drying a bit semi-gloss.

Keep in mind that you will have to learn a whole new way of doing things with acrylics. Also, the two painters who I consider the best in the hobby use enamels. There might not be the advantage you think there is with acrylics.

You don't have to use anything special as far as primers under acrylics, but I didn't think Tamiya's was all that great. I like the Floquil primer, but you might not be able to find it anymore.

Hope this helps,
Barry

 

[daredevil]

Hey--thanks Johnny & Barry! Those were the kind of answers I was looking for. I actually ran into a link for coloradominiatures.com on the website & went there--their sets are cool. I'm going to order the set for "medieval"--plus a few extras. I also have a book on order that should help some. I'm going to keep at the enamels on the Templar figure though--I think I can make it work.
I'd like to post some in-progress, but my old digital takes crappy close ups. I have two 35mm Nikons though that do the trick--albiet not quite so instantly!
As far as the enamels--do either of you (or anyone else) know a good technique for doing the armor? I used Testor's "Steel" and plan to "weather it" with some dry brusing to knock down the sheen a bit is some spots, but I'm tentative about it. For the chain mail, I did a base coat of Model Master "Gunmetal" followed by a drybrushing with the steel--and that looks pretty cool!
Thanks again for the information!
--Daredevil

 

[Calvin]

I'm a new(bie) too, but if I can advise you try looking at your hardware store for synthetic primers (not acrylics, but primers to be used with turpentine).
The range of products is large enough and for the same price of the Tamiya you can buy a lot. The best are those for sailing boats.
When dry, such primer gives you a perfect base for acrylics.

 

[Johan]

... Tamiya primer really should work well, you know ... there's also a white version if you don't like the light grey. I applied Vallejo's to Tamiya grey primer, and it works well, except for the dark blues, which, as stated above, dry semi-gloss; I'm now looking out for dark blue Andrea acrylics too.

My problems begin when I start painting with oils over the acrylics ... ... but if acrylics only is the way you want to go, then I believe Vallejo and some Andrea colours is your solution, and Tamiya primer will be fine !

One more thing - I personally have experienced a problem painting pure white over a light grey primer (5 - 6 coats and the grey still showing through); next time I'll have to paint something white, I'll start with a light grey base coat, and use pure white only for the highlights ...

 

[Lou Masses]

I've tried numerous primers and frankly to date, the Tamiya (albeit relatively expensive) works best for me. It dries very quickly and does not obscure detail at all. My experience with auto primers is that they are too thick and sometimes do obscure tiny details (they are after all desinged to fill in small imperfections). The floquil which I understand is no longer around for me worked as long as the stuff didn't "go bad" I had quite a few cans that after sitting for a while and used would put out a sort of "fuzz" on the figure which was like a powder on the surface which I couldn't repair-after the second time permanently damaging a figure- no more Floquil!

Liquitex acrylics in my experience don't work well on figures. For one they are too thick and secondly not opaque enough. That said I do mix them with vallejos or Andreas when trying to acheive and effect. Everyone pretty much answered the Vallejo vs. Andrea question for you already. The Andreas do dry dead matte though which is great.

 

[TomRiddle]

I have just used Liquitex (the ones in the short bottle) to paint the face and leather items of an Elite figure and they worked just fine. You must put your base coat on in thin layers (two or three) and let them dry before you recoat...use a hair dry to speed the process, but let the figure cool before you paint again.

In my opinion, they produce, for my techniques, better results for flesh because they dry with that slightly moist sheen. They also have much finer pigmentation than the Vallejos and Andrea paints. I do mix in the Vallejos to create the shadows, add a bit of Vallejo Glaze Medium and water, building the shadows in multiple applications.

Highlights are done with Liquitex thinned with water and a bit of alchohol. They blend beautifully. I will borrow a camera and try to post a couple of photos ASAP.

For good measure I also use Jo Sonja, Andrea, Humbrol, printer inks, and oils on my figures. I just switch to whatever medium makes me happy at the moment.

My basic flesh mix:

Liquitex Deep Portrait Pink plus a dab of Burnt Sienna for the base (stolen from Phil Kessling)

Portait Pink for the first highlight
Just add a touch of white (or an off white) for further highlights

Shadows are the base plus a bit more Sienna for the first shadow
I then add small amounts of Vallejo Hull Red (#985) or Burnt Cad Red (#814)
for additional shadows. The darkest shadows are Hull Red and Flat black for a deep red.

Have fun!

Tom Riddle

 

[Einion]

Hi Linda, I've used artists' acrylics almost exclusively for figure painting as an adult and they can certainly work okay and in some respects they're easier to use than hobby acrylics - longer open time, better brushing characteristics. On the downside having to thin them to a workable consistency all the time can prove tedious if you're not used to it and unless you pick your colours carefully coverage can be a major headache - many colours are intentionally semi-transparent and transparent while hobby paints tend to favour opacity. Artists' acrylics also usually dry to a satin or at best a semi-matt finish, which is fine for certain applications like skin but most of us prefer a lot better matt for fabrics.

Part of the trouble you've had is Liquitex's acrylics have poorer coverage than better brands with higher pigment loads, although their Medium Viscosity range is better than the High Vis. when thinned to the amount we generally have to, particularly if you pick colours carefully. Since you already have some I would stick with them for skintones at least, they'll generally give a much more lively result than you often see from hobby acrylics with their dead matt finish (emphasis on the dead ). It probably goes without saying that despite their apparent higher cost you get a lot more for your buck with artists' acrylics compared to hobby colours if that's a factor.

As regards priming I've use automotive primers for years now pretty much exclusively. I think Doug Cohen uses a Rustoleum primer (someone here will have the number if you want to try it) that is probably very similar to what I use here. If you apply them properly - which includes warming the can and generous agitation - these won't fill detail on a Hornet figure so they'll work for anything.

Einion

 

[KeithP]

No one responded to your question on armor :lol:

You'll find as many techniques for that as you will for primers :lol:

Personally, I love the Gunze Sangyo Mr Metals. Easy to apply, very versatile for both plate and mail. Also, can get some great effects depending on how much you buff. If you are interested, check out the knight I have in my work bench. All the armor was done using Mr metal's various flavors. I used Augie Rodriquez method which I can send to you if you are interested.

Good luck and welcome to PF

BTW, I use the floquil model RR primer AND liquitex as a base for my oil flesh!

Keith

 

[daredevil]

Wow! You guys are great! I went to the general forum to ask another question tonight and found a slew of new posts to the painting questions--terrific--and all mighty helpful. I appreciate each and every reply.
Thanks for making me feel welcome, too!
--daredevil

 

[Automata]

Since a lot of people like Tamiya primer so much, I'm wondering if I did something wrong when I used it. Mine went on just a bit pebbly and did not stick to white metal nearly as well as I felt it should. I put a figure I had primed with Tamiya on a base and happened to scrape my fingernail slightly on one of the boots and the primer, along with the acrylic undercoat on top of it, easily came off in flakes. I just sprayed it on without doing anything special, like warming the can or washing the figure. That's the way I've used Floquil for years without any problems. Do you need to be more careful with Tamiya? I'd like to at least use up the can I have.

Barry

 

[Guy]

I have had no problems getting Floquil primer. I have used it for years and just bought 2 more cans. The new cans were slightly smaller than before but worked fine like the old R9 primer has.

 

[Einion]

Hi Barry, pretty much anything from a can will spray better warmed up a bit - it reduces the viscosity of the paint and increases the pressure slightly which both add up to finer atomisation. It doesn't take too long and you only need to use hand-hot water so it's well worth the effort if you're having a problem.

I know a lot of us don't clean our figures and even Bill mentioned in his book that he doesn't wash his but mould release compounds can affect adhesion so I would either wash the kit or give it a quick brush over with rubbing alcohol or acetone if you have any.

Einion

 

[daredevil]

Oh no! I totally forgot about warming the can up! That sure might have helped the flow of the Tamiya WHITE primer I tried--it was terrible! I'll try warming the can of grey next time as I was getting a little 'grainy' texture from it.
Guy--I've heard quite a few modelers sing the praises of Floquil primer--where do you buy yours?
--daredevil

 

[Guy]

I get my Floquil primer from a local Model Railroad hobby shop. Any supplier who carries Testors, should be able to order you some, as Testor's bought out Floquil.

 

[Automata]

That's good to know Guy. I thought the entire Floquil line had been discontinued.

Barry