Germanic-Roman Warrior, 1st Century A.D.- Pegaso Models new

[Ulrich]

I can only agree with Einion. A german soldier 1939 - 45, not only at the eastern front, would have taken what he could get. But if german or soviet or american or british or whatever else it was from one period and not, as Einion mentioned, a gun from 1813, boots from the 30years-war 1635 and the uniform from 1941 and perhaps like many, many "Celts" who are wearing women bracelets, a nice collar.
That is the problem with the most "barbarians". They are wearing in many cases things found in graves in a period over 400, 500 years. And sometimes they are wearing always the same things which are until today only found in women graves.
Just my two cents.

 

[DEL]

Unless of course he's a Barbara-arian.
I think Ulrich's point is well made. If an item is proven and known to be inappropriate, like exclusively and culturally female items then this should be avoided .
Other than that as Sherlock said “Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth.”

 

[Martin64]

So what part of the newly released figure is grossly out of the given time frame that it could not have been used within the first century somewhere in the area of the Roman-Germanic culture? Helmets and chainmail - later on armor - was passed on and reused, adapted etc for a long period of time. Was fur out of fashion in the first century? Were pants forbidden for all Germanic warriors who maybe did not even regard themselves as "Germanic"?
Is there any clear evidence that certain bracelets were regarded as "women stuff"/ "restricted to women" among Celts?
Does all this matter so much that it has to be mentioned as a general allegation as soon as there is a new release even if it might not apply to this specific figure?

 

[Martin Antonenko]

Okay, You are all right and I am unright!

If a Germanic warrior went to combat in the first century he dressed himself in Celtic pants, pulled then a Roman chainmail on, hung a Gallic or Roman "Torque" on it, took an axe which style looked like that in later enturies, put a roman legionary helmet on wrapped around a loincloth made ​​of wolf skin, put his very heavy and obstructing bearskin cloak - and then took his sword from the wall, which fittings on the scabbard look more like 3rd but 1st Century.

Of course, he strapped the sword to himself that he was not able to go a single step without stumbling.

Finally, he wrapped himself cuffs á la Hollywood around his forearms and wrists - and went off to the battlefield ...

There is no evidence for that - but the absence of evidence makes the character so historically accurate.

Agree ...?

 

[Filipe]

I am very sad to inform that i will be incapacitated to solve this issue. Just lost the keys to my time machine, i think the dog ate it.

 

[Johan Kees]

To be fair there's an important principle to bear in mind, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.Einion

I appreciate what you are saying, Einion. I myself have a special interest for the Roman era and it is not that I am unaware of debatable items and gear used on Roman related subjects. But on the other hand archeological evidence is all in all very scarse considering that the Roman era lasted for about a thousand years. So, if we are honest about it, much is pure guesswork as we know only a fraction of the real customs, products, etc. Also,we tend to look at ancient civilisations through very modern glasses. With this I mean that we now live in a society that discards things as soon as these do not longer please the owner's expectations. For us living in a industrial era this is very easy as shops and warehouses are filled with products manufactured en mass. Not so in those days where items were first of all produced by hand and were probably used and repaired endlessly because buying new stuff was to costly for the average man and woman in the so-called street. I.e. helmets are found with the names of the consecutive owners inscribed.

That said I wonder how one can be so sure stating this and that was not used or worn in an age were uniformity was the least of the people's concern. After all, we are talking about millions of people of Roman, Celtic, German, ... origins who - just as in modern days - had contact with one another and no doubt would obtain items as a result of cross fertilization and trade. Moreover, even in modern armies, soldiers tend to adapt their gear and stuff to a certain degree to their own convenience when in the field and the longer their 'tour of duty' lasts.

So bottom line for me is that as long as Pegaso Models does not releases a Roman armed with a machine gun, I like to be rather forgiving and enjoy their miniatures. Of course this is my own choice and if others do fall over certain detailsn well it is their right. But in the end, being too critical can diminish the joy you have in the hobby - I know I have been there...

All the best

Johan

 

[Filipe]

a Roman armed with a machine gun

Sorry Johan, but there is hard evidence of that.

Soon, in a figure shop near you.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

If WWII-era stuff posted here had the same kind of anachronisms (not the same number, it wouldn't require that) we've seen with older subjects I can guarantee to you that there would be as much griping about those errors, if not more because it would be far more obvious and to a larger number of members. Can you seriously imagine the reaction to an SS figure armed with a wheel-lock, or wearing 19th-century boots? And how about both together?!

In reality it is not just Roman-era figures with anachronisms that get highlighted. You might not recall, in addition to clearly fantasy elements we've seen kit items that are centuries out for the stated date of the subject. Centuries. Would you be uncritical of a late-renaissance figure armed with a Brown Bess, with a 1911A1 holstered at his belt? Those are not exaggerated examples of the level of error on some ancient-era figures.
Einion

The problem with those examples is that they do not relate to this in a fair timeline.

This because of several reason. Mostly because since the 17th Century the curve of technical development had steepend(is that a Word?).
The example of the wheellock pistol is totally outdated but it still served in many minor conflicts way after the flintlock appeared.

Had the fashion not changed there would not have been a big deal with you second example but the figure would rather be of the era of the equipment of the latest dating in the timelime.

But this is also connected to time and era. In the end of WWII we saw a lot of WWI equipment resurfaceing. The early vikingraiders often had scramsaxes and old woodaxes as main weapon. Sometimes old styles is used as tradition as the curaisiers of the 30year war. Or the Napoleonic formations of ACW. So I think its necessary to discuss the actual case and see if it on its own merits is plaussible rather than make generalisations.

Cheers
Janne Nilsson

 

[gommolo]

Some historical information:

In the Germanic society, the warrior constituted the base of the social structure and war represented the sole and true masculine occupation. The type of war that maintained this structure was however quite different from that fought in the Greco-Roman world and constituted a ritual one with the main objective been not the destruction of the enemy but rather the accumulation of richness, prestige or ending a vendetta. The weapons and tactics were very simple. With the arrival of the Romans, everything changed. The weapons and equipment became more sophisticated, the clashes more bloody and the Germanics that lived long found themselves fighting for their survival. Some Germanics lend their service to the Romans, some becoming the personal bodyguards of the Emperor (the first to use them was Julius Caesar) and they accumulated richness beyond every imagination. Those who remained in their lands, formed alliances to stop the Roman advancement which lead to clashes like the one at Teutenburg. Some used tactics learned from their service in the Roman army (like Arminus or Maroboduo). The auxiliary troops or "troops of support", in Latin auxilia, were a part of the Roman army recruited from the submissive populations of peregrine, who as yet did not possess Roman citizenship. Gaius Julius Caesar started using cavalry contingents from the allied populations in the course of the conquest of Gaul. The recruitment of auxiliaries was mainly from Gaul and Germania, from the west provinces like the Gaul, Hispania, the Batavia, Thrace, and others from areas beyond such as Germania Major. Augustus also reorganized the system of enlistment offering them permanent recruitment and not just recruitment for the occasional military campaigns, uniform equipment and a quarterly pay equating to about one third of how much a legionary was paid. Augustus established, those who remained away from their region for a period of 25 years and at the moment of dismissal obtained a final reward (either in money or a piece of land to cultivate, in the new provinces to colonize like veterans), Roman citizenship, the legalisation of any marriage (ius connubii) and the possibility for their sons to be recruited to the service of the Roman legions.

 

[Babelfish]

Sorry Johan, but there is hard evidence of that.

Soon, in a figure shop near you.

HILARIOUS!!!!!!

I nearly laughed me man-bits off!!!!!!

- Steve

 

[Uruk-Hai]

Yup, thats the secret behind many of their victories.

Cheers
Janne Nilsson

 

[Tom W.]

HILARIOUS!!!!!!

I nearly laughed me man-bits off!!!!!!

- Steve

Sorry Johan, but there is hard evidence of that.

Soon, in a figure shop near you.

I think,there is something wrong?After hours of studying later...................THE FEATHERS ON THE CENTURION´S HELMET MUST BE RED!

 

[housecarl]

Does a Centurion of Chieftain tank count?
Nice figure, and nice paint.
Carl.

 

[housecarl]

I think,there is something wrong?After hours of studying later...................THE FEATHERS ON THE CENTURION´S HELMET MUST BE RED!

Winter camo.

 

[Blackship]

Sorry Johan, but there is hard evidence of that.

Soon, in a figure shop near you.

This will be a classic !

 

[Tom W.]

Winter camo.

On such a bright and sunny day?Or is it a windproof cover?By driving it must rotate 90 degrees!.