Great Problems with the Red Color

[megroot]

Hello Guys,

The red color is driving me mad.
I have redone the red coat on my El Cid figure now for the fourth time. And when i saw it this morning i think i gonna have to redo it again.

What is happen?
The Raw Umber what i'm using for shading is floating on the red color. It is impossible the have a smooth transitiion between the red and dark.
The yellow for highlighting is gonna be alright. Here i have a smooth transistion.

But the shadows are dark stripe's instead of smooth transitions.

How now's what is wrong, and how it is gonna be done.

Marc

 

[Kisifer]

Hello my friend Marc. I just painted yesteday a red coat of an art girona 91st private (highlander). I don't know what red you are trying to achieve but i normally use Cadmium red Medium and i darken it with Alizarine Crimpson. According to your red you can use Alizarine with a bit of Cadmium red medium for shadows. For lights i use Cadmium red Light. I got very satisfactory results with those colors. If i can see your red you are trying to achieve, i will prolly give you a better advice (if i can of course).

 

[Roc]

Marc, red are easy to paint, here is my formula:

1= Base - Cadmium red + Cadmium red deep.
2= Medium shadows - Cadmium red deep
3= Deep shadows- Allizzarin crimson.
4= extremme shadows- purple.
5= medium highlight- cadmium red.
6= extreme highlight- scarlet red.

Never use raw umber to shadow and yellow to highlight.

Hope this helps.
Cheers
Roc.

 

[Kisifer]

hehehhe very similar to what i use Roc I will give scarlet a try for the extreme highlights. Cadmium red light works also for me.

 

[megroot]

Xenofon

I will thank you for your advice. Gonna try it this evening.
But i have to clean the figure again.

marc.

 

[megroot]

Hello Rocco,


Yes, Red is easy and i never had problems with red.
But at the club they told me, when you wanted a dyed red you have to darken with Raw Umber, and highlighting with yellow.
But the Raw Umber don't want mix with the Cadmium Red. That's why i ask for help.
And the Planet is the only way where you can get help

Thanks for the advice.
I now what to do this evening. :lol:

Marc

 

[Blind Pew]

Hello again Marc,

I use Windsor & Newton oils, and I know red can be a problem. I've found that I have to undercoat in red or possibly orange Humbrols. Prior to applying the oils, Windsor Red, I squeeze some out onto a bit of paper, to let out the excess oils. I then paint the oils in. After this, I shade using - wait for it - green! This produces very very dark shadows and has to be applied very sparingly into the deepest shadows and then blended out into the base colour. Green being the opposite of red. Hope this hasn't complicated things!

All the best.

 

[Kisifer]

No problem Marc. Lets us know how things will go with the new try. Take care.

 

[megroot]

Anthony

Thanks for the advice. I also use Windsor & Newton oils. I undercoat with Vallejo red. A do also on a archive cart the paint.
I give green a try for the deepest shadows.

Again Thank you.

Marc

 

[amherbert]

Hi Marc

The green should have a similar color effect to the umber, because the umber has a bit of green to it. Are you mixing wet on wet? Maybe you need to let the red dry a bit - which takes forever when I use it!!

Good luck.

Andy

 

[Blind Pew]

Yes, letting the red dry a bit is certainly good advice. I'll add that I often don't apply any green directly onto the figure, I often play about with it on my pallet, mixing into the red there, getting the very deep dark shade I'm after, then I'll apply it to the figure.

These are only ideas Marc, and are by no means the perfect way - it's just what do.... until I find another method one day maybe.

That's one thing that's so good about this hobby, there is NO single way to do it all, and don't be afraid to experiment. I know figures can be expensive and you don't want to ruin it etc, so I'd perhaps practice on an old one, or as I say, on a pallette of some sort.

Let us know how you get on!

 

[Einion]

Hi Marc, let me start by saying I would never suggest you use Raw Umber to shade a red. Raw Umber is a dark yellow; it's completely the wrong hue for red so it's best used, if you paint this way, as a shade colour for certain yellows only. As a paint it also tends to be semitransparent which can be a pain, depending on how used to handling colours like this you are, but in general opaque mixes will make your job a lot easier so I would try to stick to them as much as possible.

Colour use is highly subjective in the hobby but depending on whether you want a realistic colour and shading effect or bright colour you can use very different approaches to tackling reds; since realism is my thing I'll stick to this area. There were two principal red dyes used at this time and to simplify matters I'd suggest a scarlet (orange-red) as there are no truly opaque crimson paints straight from the tube. I think you have Cadmium Red and it's a good starting point since it's one of the most opaque reds available.

I don't know if you work wet-in-wet or over a dried oil basecoat so you may need to adjust these colours a bit - working wet-in-wet you tend to use a little lighter and darker mixes for highlight and shadow since they mix with the basecoat colour as you're blending.

Over an undercoat of red or reddish brown acrylic:
Midtone: Cadmium Red + a little medium green* + a touch of Cadmium Yellow
Highlight: midtone mix + a little Cadmium Yellow + a little Titanium White
Shadow: Cadmium Red + medium green

*Chromium Oxide Green if you have it (very opaque).

For me at least, models of this large a scale should be painted with less contrast than smaller figures so I would definitely not overdo the shading, but if you want a deep shadow colour mix the shadow with a touch of black (Mars Black if you have it).

Originally posted by Blind Pew@Jun 6 2005, 12:22 PM
Green being the opposite of red.

Various greens work very well to dull down many reds but if you put it this way (i.e. in colour-wheel terms) technically magenta is opposite green One of the best mixing complements for Cadmium Red Light/Cadmium Scarlet is actually a phthalo blue (Winsor Blue Green Shade)!

Einion

 

[megroot]

Einion

Thanks for the explanation. I use wet in wet normally. But with this one i tried also wet on dry.
Now i know why the Raw Umber is not mixing.
I will follow the suggestions with the green.
I am on my work now, so i dont know if i have phtalo blue. If so i use that.

marc.

 

[megroot]

Anthony ,

You did some great suggestions. Mixing on the palet instead of the figure.
I most try that also.

Thanks

Marc

 

[gary]

Marc,

Just a couple of questions. Will you be coming to Expo? If not, will anyone in your club be coming? If yes to either of these, let's see if we can work out a meeting. I'll have a small suitcase loaded up with dyed wool samples that I'm bringing. Maybe seeing the colors in the flesh will help out.

Gary

 

[megroot]

Hello Garry,

I achive yesterday evening the colour that i wanted. It is coming closely to the example picture's that you have send to me. Thanks for that.
Sorry, i gonna not make it to Boston. It is one ocean to far for me.

Marc.

 

[megroot]

I wanna thank all you guys who's helped me with my problem.
The red is how i wanted and i am satisfied how it turns out.
And Green is the color to shadow the red.
For the first time i get no orange color with the highlighting thanks to the suggestion of Einion to put a little white into the yellow.

Again Thanks Guys.

Marc

 

[jose hernandez]

Hello,Marc;Red!,sometimes a problem;I have a easy trick for subdued ,dusty red:base red brown,highlights with flesh tones,and the shadows with prussian blue,or similar in oils;the deep shadow with a touch of black.added to the blue.Jose.

 

[megroot]

Thanks Jose,

I shell arhive this one to.

Marc