HELP!!! Clear water resin issues

[FigureLover]

Hi fellow Planeteers,
I am asking if anyone here can help me out. I am trying to simulate a clear water stream on a base using a product called Easycast Clear, it is a polyurathane clear resin, two part 1:1 mixing system. The problem is that I am getting MAJOR bubbling where the resin is coming in contact with my base, this is only forming between 1 to 2 hours after pouring when the resin is in a gel type state. The bubbles are ONLY where the resin meets the base. The base is painted in Jo Sonya Acrylics.
I have tried to do a pour/cast twice now, the first time I poured it up to a depth of around 6-7mm and had the bubble issues. I then pulled it all off and tried again. This time I coated the base in white craft glue (saw this online somewhere) and let it dry for 24hours, I also mixed the two parts for longer (4 minutes) warmed the resin to about 25degrees celcius and only poured it to a max depth of 4-5mm (I got bubbles even on the shallower areas). Still the same thing.
I am at a loss and have attached pics of the second pouring
Cheers, Ben

 

[FigureLover]

Oh, and I forgot to mention, the left over resin that I left in my pour container dried clear with no bubbles!!!!!

 

[NickM]

Hey Ben, I have no experience doing this at all, but Murray from our club gave us a demo of resin pouring/casting a few months ago - can't remember if you were there for that one.
Murray poured it from quite high, and in an extremely thin stream. He mentioned pouring it that way gets most of the air out of the resin and avoids bubbles.
Not sure if this helps - you're probably already doing it, but thought I'd mention it just in case. Good luck. mate.
Cheers

 

[FigureLover]

Hi Nick, yep I was there for that one, ta. Although I am not pouring it from a height, there are next to no bubbles once it is poured and I have popped or got rid of any that maybe there. The bubbles appear after at least 1 hour after pouring and the resin is starting to cure
Cheers Mate
Ben

 

[kansas kid]

I am sorry to say, as you've already poured this new acrylic "water" on to the base of your presentation. But when ever I am using a product or doing a procedure that I never have done before, I learn the leasons of that "attempt" on something that isn't the final work. I wish you would have experimented with this product first, to find out it's lessons, on something that doesn't matter. Yes, it takes more time. But over the plus 40 plus yrs. of model building, I have decided it does really pay off in the end, to approach modeling in this manner. I hope my words do not seem harsh. I mean no criticism here. Your base is very impressive. And I hope you'll be able to fix the problem.

The Miami Jayhawk

 

[jasmils]

Ben,
Did you seal the base work prior to pouring the resin?
If not, I would say the problem lays with the paint you have used and it is reacting to the resin when it starts to exotherm or when the exotherm starts, it is heating/expanding the air trapped in the base causing tiny trapped bubbles to expand. Mind you, Easy Cast Clear does not generate as much heat as other resins, so I would say its the paint.
I had the same problem with that base for the 4 figure Roman vignette I did years ago. I sealed it, and poured the water again and it solved the problem.


Jason

 

[Dan Morton]

I would say Jason has hit the nail on the head chemically. Most 2 part air-drying resins produce some heat as their chemical reactions complete and the surface dries out. I'm not familiar with the Easy Cast Clear product or the paints you were using. Sorry there isn't a better answer.

All the best,
Dan

 

[FigureLover]

I am sorry to say, as you've already poured this new acrylic "water" on to the base of your presentation. But when ever I am using a product or doing a procedure that I never have done before, I learn the leasons of that "attempt" on something that isn't the final work. I wish you would have experimented with this product first, to find out it's lessons, on something that doesn't matter. Yes, it takes more time. But over the plus 40 plus yrs. of model building, I have decided it does really pay off in the end, to approach modeling in this manner. I hope my words do not seem harsh. I mean no criticism here. Your base is very impressive. And I hope you'll be able to fix the problem.

The Miami Jayhawk

Hi Rick, Yeah I jumped the gun a bit I suppose, Trying to get this piece done for our show in a month. Read all the info I could get (not much) and thought I would give it a go. I have fixed the base and ready to try again once I think I have sussed out the problem. Will try on a scrap pice first
Ben

 

[FigureLover]

Ben,
Did you seal the base work prior to pouring the resin?
If not, I would say the problem lays with the paint you have used and it is reacting to the resin when it starts to exotherm or when the exotherm starts, it is heating/expanding the air trapped in the base causing tiny trapped bubbles to expand. Mind you, Easy Cast Clear does not generate as much heat as other resins, so I would say its the paint.
I had the same problem with that base for the 4 figure Roman vignette I did years ago. I sealed it, and poured the water again and it solved the problem.


Jason

Hi Jason, long time no see!!!! What did you seal your base with? I have tryed the acrylic opption, maybe an enamel version this time.
Ben

 

[FigureLover]

I would say Jason has hit the nail on the head chemically. Most 2 part air-drying resins produce some heat as their chemical reactions complete and the surface dries out. I'm not familiar with the Easy Cast Clear product or the paints you were using. Sorry there isn't a better answer.

All the best,
Dan

Cheers Dan, I thought as much as to a chemical reaction of the paint and as to what I have said to Jason above, I might give an enamel sealant option a go. Unless anyone else has a better idea
Ta
Ben

 

[John Bowery]

Ben,
See if Mike Meehan can help you on this. He is very good at water. Send him a PF message.
Cheers
John

 

[FigureLover]

Ben,
See if Mike Meehan can help you on this. He is very good at water. Send him a PF message.
Cheers
John

Hi John, yep have already contacted Mike before I put this thread up, he has had some great success with simulated water and is a great help but this may have even stumped him. Thanks for the tip though
Ben

 

[loosehead]

Bro have you thought about adhereing glad wrap ( lunch wrap )to the base and ground work as it is clear might provide a solid seal and also any wrinkles may add to water effect .
Chris

 

[FigureLover]

Bro have you thought about adhereing glad wrap ( lunch wrap )to the base and ground work as it is clear might provide a solid seal and also any wrinkles may add to water effect .
Chris

Hi Chris, good to hear from you. Definately haven't thought about doing this, it would form a seal between the base and the resin. Only thing would you see any air under the glad wrap as the base is rocky and rough. Interesting thought though
Ben

 

[jasmils]

Hey Ben and Chris,
I don't think glad wrap would work. The air under the glad wrap would work like a mirror.
I just coated mine in about 3 very thick layers of Model Master gloss varnish then started on the first thin layer. Let that go off a bit, then filled in the rest.
This one here
http://armorama.kitmaker.net/module...Sections&file=index&req=viewarticle&artid=585

Cheers Jason

 

[FigureLover]

Hey Ben and Chris,
I don't think glad wrap would work. The air under the glad wrap would work like a mirror.
I just coated mine in about 3 very thick layers of Model Master gloss varnish then started on the first thin layer. Let that go off a bit, then filled in the rest.
This one here
http://armorama.kitmaker.net/module...Sections&file=index&req=viewarticle&artid=585

Cheers Jason

Thanks for that Jason, I think that is what I am after and thats the look I am after. Going to give it a go on the weekend
Ta
Ben

 

[ausf]

Urethane resins are extremely sensitive to moisture. It's the main reason for their poor shelf life, particularly the isocyanates. I have a friend who spilled some in a classroom lab once. They donned the safety gear, cleaned it up in the proscribed way, disposed of the spill and left only to find all the fish in aquarium dead the next day, the top of the water was sealed off with a plastic skin.

My guess is rising air bubbles that reached the surface too late to pop or a reaction remaining moisture in the paint.

 

[FigureLover]

Thanks for that Jeff, and what you are saying is correct. I have since contacted the company that I bought it off and his answer was that as I had used DAS modelling clay (even though I had baked it and let dry for several weeks) still holds a small amount of water, even the Jo Sonya paints and the dead tree stump that I have used hold a minute amount of water and that is causing the bubbling. I have sealed it all with a gloss varnish and hope to have another go over the weekend to see if it worked. If that doesnt work, there is another product coming in that will do all that I want without any of the issues that I have had (not sure what it is yet).
Ta
Ben

 

[ausf]

Whoops, I missed the photos the first time around (I have no idea how). I wouldn't have suggested rising air, unless you were pumping it in while mixing.

I forgot to mention the mixing vessel and tool. Not that you did, but never use paper cups or wooden sticks to mix resin, residual moisture in them will almost certainly cause bubbling. You'd be better off mixing with a rusty nail.