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Alan
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garyjd
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Alan, Great idea. This is far from being a period I have any knowledge of. but like doing the "homework" part sometimes almost as much as the actual work. Take a look at this link maybe this gets you closer to the answer you're seeking. Before seeing this I would say he was probably a cavalry officer, and after reading this article would say the same. Maybe an order of battle would be the way to go. Was there a 22nd Chasseurs foot and or mounted that took part in the campaign? Good luck.~Gary
http://www.napoleonseries.org/articles/bio...hies/foures.cfm
http://www.napoleonseries.org/articles/bio...hies/foures.cfm
megroot
A Fixture
Good Afternoon Alan,
I find the time on my work to look around at the internet. I found a great link, that is in the franch lanquage.
http://www.encyclopedie.info/index.php?FCM_module=FCM_jvf&FCM_jvf_op=page&FCM_jvf_article_id=1120
so i did a translation ( i do not know if you can read franch) and it is definitely 22e Chausseurs.
With his question, justified well, one answers him that it is the citizen Pauline Fourès, woman of a second lieutenant to the 22e Chasseurs with horse which has enfreint the instruction given by the chief of forwarding: no the woman on board, except cantinières
Another great line that i find of Napoleon.org site is the following what says it was cavalry.
Puauline Bellisle was the daughter of a clockmaker, Henri Jacques-Clement Bellisle. She worked as a milliner until she met Jean-Noel Foures a cavalryman on sick leave from the fighting in the Pyrennes. They were soon married, but their honeymoon was cut short by Foures' call-up for the Egyptian campaign. Wives and mistresses were not to accompany the expedition, but, desperate not to be parted, Pauline disguised herself in a Chasseurs' uniform and sneaked aboard the transport ship, La Lucette. The Foures were not the only ones to do this, in fact there were many wives, lovers, and mistresses accompanying the French army to Egypt.
Hope i helped you.
Marc
I find the time on my work to look around at the internet. I found a great link, that is in the franch lanquage.
http://www.encyclopedie.info/index.php?FCM_module=FCM_jvf&FCM_jvf_op=page&FCM_jvf_article_id=1120
so i did a translation ( i do not know if you can read franch) and it is definitely 22e Chausseurs.
With his question, justified well, one answers him that it is the citizen Pauline Fourès, woman of a second lieutenant to the 22e Chasseurs with horse which has enfreint the instruction given by the chief of forwarding: no the woman on board, except cantinières
Another great line that i find of Napoleon.org site is the following what says it was cavalry.
Puauline Bellisle was the daughter of a clockmaker, Henri Jacques-Clement Bellisle. She worked as a milliner until she met Jean-Noel Foures a cavalryman on sick leave from the fighting in the Pyrennes. They were soon married, but their honeymoon was cut short by Foures' call-up for the Egyptian campaign. Wives and mistresses were not to accompany the expedition, but, desperate not to be parted, Pauline disguised herself in a Chasseurs' uniform and sneaked aboard the transport ship, La Lucette. The Foures were not the only ones to do this, in fact there were many wives, lovers, and mistresses accompanying the French army to Egypt.
Hope i helped you.
Marc
Roy
A Fixture
What an interesting record of events. The romance of Egypt all those years ago.
I don't know if Foures was cavalry or infantry. I just have a feeling he would be cavalry. Maybe someone will come up with some excerpts from his service record if such a thing exists or is even available.
Can't wait to see your vignette when it's ready Alan.
Thank you.
Roy.
I don't know if Foures was cavalry or infantry. I just have a feeling he would be cavalry. Maybe someone will come up with some excerpts from his service record if such a thing exists or is even available.
Can't wait to see your vignette when it's ready Alan.
Thank you.
Roy.
Lou Masses
A Fixture
Wow, tough question. I searched all of my sources and could either find nothing or what you pointed out-conflicting reports. Some say "cavalry", some say Chasseurs, some say Infantry, some specifically say Chasseurs a pied. Which is right? Gary may be on to something - to see which units were in Egypt at the time. I can check that for you later if you like.
Even here on pF, while they seem to be consistently cavalry you'll have to make up your mind and paint your figure!
Even here on pF, while they seem to be consistently cavalry you'll have to make up your mind and paint your figure!
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Alan
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Hello Alan, I hope this can help you.
Under the order of General Dumas (father of Alexandre Dumas, the famous writer), the cavalry of the Armée d'Orient is composed of the 2nd Hussars, 22nd Chasseurs, 3rd, 14th, 15th, 18th and 20th Dragoons.
I did not find any mention of an other 22nd chasseurs . I would say the 22nd Chasseurs you're looking for is Cavalry. By the way, it was under the order of Lassalle.
Best regards
Bertrand
Under the order of General Dumas (father of Alexandre Dumas, the famous writer), the cavalry of the Armée d'Orient is composed of the 2nd Hussars, 22nd Chasseurs, 3rd, 14th, 15th, 18th and 20th Dragoons.
I did not find any mention of an other 22nd chasseurs . I would say the 22nd Chasseurs you're looking for is Cavalry. By the way, it was under the order of Lassalle.
Best regards
Bertrand
Johan
A Fixture
Alan,
I would say you're looking after the uniform of the 22nd Chasseurs a Cheval. Cavalry that is. Light infantry of the Line was , I believe, known as "Infanterie Legere" in those days, except for the chass. a pied of the Imperial Guard; within the line units of Infanterie Legere you had Carabiniers (heavy companies), Chasseurs (middle companies) and voltigeurs (light companies).
In that early period, ca. 1800, Chasseurs a cheval would probably have worn a hussar style uniform, so the jacket you want to depict on your figure would be a dolman; very likely that dolman would have been dark green with "capucine" facings (collar and cuffs).
Now as for the colour "capucine", that is yet another discussion ...
I sincerely hope this helps,
Johan
I would say you're looking after the uniform of the 22nd Chasseurs a Cheval. Cavalry that is. Light infantry of the Line was , I believe, known as "Infanterie Legere" in those days, except for the chass. a pied of the Imperial Guard; within the line units of Infanterie Legere you had Carabiniers (heavy companies), Chasseurs (middle companies) and voltigeurs (light companies).
In that early period, ca. 1800, Chasseurs a cheval would probably have worn a hussar style uniform, so the jacket you want to depict on your figure would be a dolman; very likely that dolman would have been dark green with "capucine" facings (collar and cuffs).
Now as for the colour "capucine", that is yet another discussion ...
I sincerely hope this helps,
Johan
Lou Masses
A Fixture
Alan,
Looked through all my volumes. Best one I had was Detaille's History of the French Army. It lists the 22nd Chasseurs as cavalry under LaSalle in Egypt as Bert mentioned.
Under infantry it mentions a 22nd line infantry but does not say whether or not it was in Egypt. As safe assumption is that he was from the cavalry, but can't say for sure....
Sorry I couldn't help more.
Looked through all my volumes. Best one I had was Detaille's History of the French Army. It lists the 22nd Chasseurs as cavalry under LaSalle in Egypt as Bert mentioned.
Under infantry it mentions a 22nd line infantry but does not say whether or not it was in Egypt. As safe assumption is that he was from the cavalry, but can't say for sure....
Sorry I couldn't help more.
Lou-
In Egypt at the time was the 22nd Light Demi-brigade, the members of which would of commonly been known as Chasseurs (unless they were Voltigiers or Carabiniers, equivalent to Grenadiers in the Line as Johann mentions). The 22nd Chasseurs was of course a cavalry Regiment and was also there at the same time. If he was a Lieutenant in a Chasseur Company of the 22nd Demi-Brigade Legere, this could of created confusion in the sources, because as you know the term Chasseur could apply both to cavalry and light infantry. When David Chandler and others listed Foures as being in the 22nd Chasseurs, a cavalry regiment, were they making an assumption or was this based on primary sources?
In Egypt at the time was the 22nd Light Demi-brigade, the members of which would of commonly been known as Chasseurs (unless they were Voltigiers or Carabiniers, equivalent to Grenadiers in the Line as Johann mentions). The 22nd Chasseurs was of course a cavalry Regiment and was also there at the same time. If he was a Lieutenant in a Chasseur Company of the 22nd Demi-Brigade Legere, this could of created confusion in the sources, because as you know the term Chasseur could apply both to cavalry and light infantry. When David Chandler and others listed Foures as being in the 22nd Chasseurs, a cavalry regiment, were they making an assumption or was this based on primary sources?
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Alan
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Alan
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Hey Alan-
I think we’ve exhausted the different sources on this that are readily available, but I’ve been checking around to see if I could find anything more than what I originally gave you from Chandler, Bourienne, et al. I checked the St. Helena Medal database on a whim and some genealogical sources for Jean-Noel Foures, but couldn’t find anything. I do not believe military service records that early are on-line (yet!). FYI, the St Helena database is a searchable index that has records of the veterans still alive in 1857 that served with Napoleon with their respective regiments, rank and time of service. It even had 10 Foures from various units, but not Jean-Noel. Oh well….
Sometimes you just have to go with your gut feeling and what will work best. I think going with a cavalry pelisse or dolman is the best choice, considering. I would challenge anyone to come up with the 100% correct answer, but would be pleasantly surprised if someone did.
I know you have references on the Revolutionary period, but for the 22nd Chasseurs and for anyone interested in this period I’d recommend Uniforms of the French Revolutionary Wars (Haythornwaite/Warner), Les Soldats de La Revolucion Francaise (Liliane and Fred Funcken, perhaps their best and most reliable work---see page 93), Napoleon’s Egyptian Campaigns (Osprey-Barthorp see plate B-2), Napoleon's Line Chasseurs (Ospre-Bukhari see page 3 and 4) and there is Rousselot, Elting, and Bucquoy.
Can’t wait to see the finished vignette!
I think we’ve exhausted the different sources on this that are readily available, but I’ve been checking around to see if I could find anything more than what I originally gave you from Chandler, Bourienne, et al. I checked the St. Helena Medal database on a whim and some genealogical sources for Jean-Noel Foures, but couldn’t find anything. I do not believe military service records that early are on-line (yet!). FYI, the St Helena database is a searchable index that has records of the veterans still alive in 1857 that served with Napoleon with their respective regiments, rank and time of service. It even had 10 Foures from various units, but not Jean-Noel. Oh well….
Sometimes you just have to go with your gut feeling and what will work best. I think going with a cavalry pelisse or dolman is the best choice, considering. I would challenge anyone to come up with the 100% correct answer, but would be pleasantly surprised if someone did.
I know you have references on the Revolutionary period, but for the 22nd Chasseurs and for anyone interested in this period I’d recommend Uniforms of the French Revolutionary Wars (Haythornwaite/Warner), Les Soldats de La Revolucion Francaise (Liliane and Fred Funcken, perhaps their best and most reliable work---see page 93), Napoleon’s Egyptian Campaigns (Osprey-Barthorp see plate B-2), Napoleon's Line Chasseurs (Ospre-Bukhari see page 3 and 4) and there is Rousselot, Elting, and Bucquoy.
Can’t wait to see the finished vignette!
A
Alan
Guest
deleted
Thought you might. This is an interesting period of transition with a lot of a potential. Here’s the site, it is pretty amazing in that it claims that it has 405,000 records:
http://stehelene.geneactes.org/
I have found this useful; not long ago I framed a St. Helena Medal and Certificate for a veteran Fusilier of the 58th line and it was kind of neat to authenticate it and check when he served.
http://stehelene.geneactes.org/
I have found this useful; not long ago I framed a St. Helena Medal and Certificate for a veteran Fusilier of the 58th line and it was kind of neat to authenticate it and check when he served.
