Hitler - Goring - Rohm Vignette - AEM New Release

[Diegoff]

As we say in Spain "for difernt tastes there are diferent colors" so I´m not going to make commentaries about these figures.
I have to disagree with Mike S. I don´t think that Napoleon is a historical figure similar to Hitler. Just considering the influence in the law of the Napoleon Code or his armies spreading the principles of the Revolution over Europe make a great heritage in the Western Civilization.
I write from a city besieged two times for the napoleonic armies ending with more than 50000 deaths but still can recognize some positive and negative aspects in the napoleonic heritage. I ´couldn´t recognize some positive aspect in the nazi regime.

Cheers

 

[Mike S.]

Whether the figures are good or poor, it's heartening to see others decry the endless elevation of hardcore Nazis in our hobby.

Napoleon may have been a dictator, and people certainly died in the wars of his time, but there were no death camps... no genocide... no mass murders of children and civilians... no Gestapo torture chambers... no hideous state-sanctioned medical experiments... and he twice abdicated rather than see France destroyed. BTW, guys, Winston Churchill considered him the greatest mind of the 19th century.

Nappy,

I'm afraid that you are incorrect. There were countless horrors committed against fellow soldiers, civilians, women and children, POW camps where starvation, torture and condoned mass death and disease was commonplace, and marauding detachments of soldiers (both deliberately assigned, as well as stragglers) who practiced evil in a manner consistent with the Gestapo during the Napoleonic wars.

This is well documented both by historians as well as first person accounts. The worst thing that can be done is to turn a blind eye to the reality of war throughout the ages, and romanticize it the further time places us from specific events as many are apparently prone to do.

Napoleon was a power and wealth hungry political despot as much as any of the multitude of like minded war mongers who have traipsed across the planet, unyielding in the face of futility, devouring human life (both that of any who stood in his way, as well as their own armies-all without remorse), seeking the same spoils as the Nazis did in our time.

The only element that has changed is the modern capacity to kill increasingly more and more humans as technology makes it more deadly efficient and effortless.

To see it any other way is shortsighted.

 

[Colin_Fraser]

Sorry Michael I can't buy the comparison of Napoleon with Hitler. Napoleon was a warlord emperor who clearly caused military deaths and destruction on a massive scale as well as significant civilian collateral damage. By the standards of his time he was successful but not seen as excessively criminal.

Hitler perfected targeted slaughter of civilians on an industrial scale and nurtured hatred and cruelty. His shadow still haunts the world today in my view. Napoleon's legacy was at least to some extent positive. I don't think you can compare Hitler to any other conqueror in history. By the standards of his day Hitler was and is still regarded as an unprecedented criminal and sociopath.

There is no comparison.

I'm not judging those who would paint these figures. But I have enough explaining to do to non-modellers who see a figure of Stauffenberg in my cabinet and only see the swaz. Good luck trying to present this trio in a good light to visitors.

Colin

 

[T50]

Well put, Mike S.
You have wrote what I wanted to for a long time here.

 

[Mike S.]

Colin,

Obviously you and I do not see eye to eye in our assessment of history and two key figures. We shall have to agree to disagree, as I am as positive in my views on this as you seem to be with yours.

Cheers T50, we seem to be of a like mind with this topic.

 

[JBoisson]

The dude on the right kinda looks like Glenn Beck.
Aside from that, the one aspect that Napoleon's troops share with Hitler's legions is pretty self-evident and one of the reasons I think we all dig this thing of ours: COOL UNIFORMS.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

Ovation-Right now Janne
Speciality
this post.

Thanks Ulrich!

Cheers
Janne Nilsson

 

[Nappy1]

Mike S.

Sorry, but you'll have to show me exactly where atrocities and state-sponsored mass murder were PLANNED Napoleonic policies. Soldiers all thru history get out of control in the field, but Nazi thugs carried out specific genocide, calculated murder, medical experiments, torture and total disregard for humanity.

Paint this kind of crap if you like, but there is no logical comparison.

 

[T50]

Oh, boy! Here's the broken record playing again.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

Nappy1, may I suggest that you edit your recent message? Is that really how you want to be percieved here?

Cheers
Janne Nilsson

EDIT: I FIRST ADRESSED THIS TO MIKE. I MEANT NAPPY1 AND HAVE NOW CORRECTED IT. MY SINCERE APOLOGIES TO MIKE S.

 

[Mike S.]

I'm not going to provide a full history course and bibliography for those lacking the initiative to gain a proper understanding of the subject, both general and martial. Just about any good account of Napoleon's campaigns (particularly, but not exclusively, the Peninsular War) will amply illustrate the degree of human carnage inflicted on the civilian populace.

Even reading the correspondence and memoirs of Wellington and his officers highlight this reality explicitly. Since these atrocities were well known among the commanding officers up to and including the Emperor himself, one can rightly conclude that they were condoned, if not outright planned. To the free world, and those being swallowed up by the dictator, ending Napoleon's reign of terror was considered at the time on level with, and seemingly as "righteous", as stopping the axis powers in the Second World War.

As technology and the populace increases, so does the degree and quantity of violence perpetrated in wars exponentially. The evil behind it is the one consistent. Napoleon, Attila the Hun, Stalin, Hitler, Hussein are all oranges to oranges comparatively.

It appears by the number of defenders that there are some who not only study the Napoleonic Wars as I do, but seem to worship the warmonger as a hero, or are at the very least apologists for him and others of his ilk throughout the ages. Interesting. I'm not elevating the actions of Hitler beyond that of a maniac. I am HOWEVER illustrating that he is not alone historically.

The idea of rose colored glasses tainting the truth does not appeal to me. I was under the impression that those here practiced Military Modeling as a collateral, artistic way of enjoying studious and scholarly historical research.

If it just boils down to potted, Hollywood history and coloring little toy soldiers, perhaps I'm on the wrong forum.

 

[IIICorps]

...many collectors will want to fill that gap in their collection with this piece...

Possibly, if the likenesses were better. Personally, I think all three miss.

 

[dinovision79]

Again well put Mike, the tendency to ignore the dark side of human nature and dictatorships backwards timewise is incomprehensible to me, this is probably also supported by the invention of telecommunication and media.

 

[Tommi]

Right, enough of all this it’s a model kit at the end of the day; I do not like what is happening here. I have had several emails and PM`s by members who find some of the written material in this thread very offensive.

THREAD NOW LOCKED

​

If anyone thinks of trying to start a new thread to continue this then I will delete it and the original one or whatever else I need to do!

THE END

TOMMI

 

[gordy]

The closing of the thread was simply to defuse and keep the discussion from spiraling out of control (it has in the past).

The point in which the discussion was closed does not mean the last post(s) has the last word or a condonation of planetFigures or it's moderators, the thread was closed AT THAT MOMENT. We cannot wait all day to have equal time for a rebuttal.

If anyone one is still offended, or has their feelings hurt or any questions regarding this action, contact me.

thank you
keep carving and painting