Does anyone know of a good match for Hodden grey in Vallejo. I've tried to match it to images on the net, but to no avail.
Cheers in advance,
Carl.
Cheers in advance,
Carl.
Hodden grey.
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Johan
A Fixture
Hi Carl,
are you going to paint a figure of a soldier of the London Scottish ?
See wikipedia for an illustration of the hodden grey tartan :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hodden
To me it seems to be a mid grey with a brownish shade ... I'd try Vallejo "London grey" or "neutral grey", you can add a brown or a purple colour to bring it up to about something that looks like it ... actually it reminds me of some shades of "confederate gray" ... so maybe, yes, Vallejo Neutral grey should maybe be your starting point ...
see also here :
http://www.albanach.org/solid_kilt.htm
it seems that Hodden grey was a variable colour, it hasn't always been the same colour.
hope this helps
Johan
are you going to paint a figure of a soldier of the London Scottish ?
See wikipedia for an illustration of the hodden grey tartan :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hodden
To me it seems to be a mid grey with a brownish shade ... I'd try Vallejo "London grey" or "neutral grey", you can add a brown or a purple colour to bring it up to about something that looks like it ... actually it reminds me of some shades of "confederate gray" ... so maybe, yes, Vallejo Neutral grey should maybe be your starting point ...
see also here :
http://www.albanach.org/solid_kilt.htm
it seems that Hodden grey was a variable colour, it hasn't always been the same colour.
hope this helps
Johan
roadking
A Fixture
I read an article in Mil. Mod. that goes back to the 70's on this color, prompting my attempt. It is a grey with a purple-maroon tint to it. When I tried to replicate the color in scale I found that if the hint of color is limited to the shadows and some mid-tones it looks fairly realistic. Bear in mind that I paint in oils - any match using Vallejo would be a mix. Try this link for photographis evidence of what I am talking about.
http://www.londonscottishregt.org/band.cfm
It's modern but it has the look you are trying to get.
http://www.londonscottishregt.org/band.cfm
It's modern but it has the look you are trying to get.
Mike S.
A Fixture
Those colors are WAY too pink to match actual Hodden Grey, especially in scale. In actuality it is a warm brown, with a bit of grey. The real deal has very little evident red color in the mix, but photographs as though it does.
I have a London Scottish piper's kilt in my possession, and can confirm the color as described.
Johan
A Fixture
... just thinking of something here : wasn't there, way back in the 70ies, a white metal 100mm figure kit of a rather corpulent looking (must have weighed a ton in white metal) drum major of the London Scottish, sculpted by David Grieve, and in each kit there was a real sample of the actual Hodden grey tartan ?
Maybe someone on planetfigure, or perhaps one of their friends, still has that kit or piece of tartan ?
Maybe someone on planetfigure, or perhaps one of their friends, still has that kit or piece of tartan ?
Einion
A Fixture
Carl, as far as verbal descriptions of the colour go, people's internal 'colour maps' and their use of terminology is highly variable and that's before we take into account that as a dyed fabric it varies - sometimes within the same photo, to make it clear it's a natural variation in the possible colour, as in two of the photos on the London Scottish Regiment's site, here and here for example.
In terms of how to approach mixing this from scratch don't think in terms of violet, brown or anything like that, it'll just tend to take you into mixtures that are in the wrong ballpark (sorry guys). Hodden grey is a very dull red, essentially a reddish-grey.
The simplest way to mix it would be to get a red and a grey* and blend the two together (not in equal quantities - you want to weight the mix very much toward grey).
Einion
*You may need to add a touch of orange or yellow to compensate for a shift in hue if you're using a simple grey mixed from black + white.
In terms of how to approach mixing this from scratch don't think in terms of violet, brown or anything like that, it'll just tend to take you into mixtures that are in the wrong ballpark (sorry guys). Hodden grey is a very dull red, essentially a reddish-grey.
The simplest way to mix it would be to get a red and a grey* and blend the two together (not in equal quantities - you want to weight the mix very much toward grey).
Einion
*You may need to add a touch of orange or yellow to compensate for a shift in hue if you're using a simple grey mixed from black + white.
Thanks a lot Einion, I will have a play.
Cheers,
Carl.
Cheers,
Carl.
captnenglish
A Fixture
This might work http://www.reapermini.com/OnlineStore/grey/latest/19086 Sorry it's not Vallejo ( don't use them much any more)
Thanks matthew, I'll give it a go.
Carl.
Carl.
Mike S.
A Fixture
Again, Hodden grey is not a reddish grey (i.e. strawberry roan), it is a warm, chestnut brownish grey with a HINT of red. The color sample SOILED GREY that Captnenglish provided a link to is very close, with a tiny bit of burnt sienna or cadmium orange added to bring it even closer.
I'm looking right at 8 yards of the actual fabric in the form of a genuine London Scottish kilt. Some lighting conditions when photographed make it appear that it is heavily red in color, but believe me it is very subtle in reality.
The color is about as violet as WWII Luftwaffe RLM Braunviolet, that is to say, it isn't actually violet, but suggestively so.
Getting it too pink by taking the red reference literally will result in a pink that just isn't correct.
The color captured in this photo is close, although it can appear more dusty grey in cooler lighting conditions than shown below:
http://www.stephen-roberts.com/1985-01a.jpg
Part of the difficulty capturing this fabric with paint is due to the same quandary found with WWI/WWII British Olive Green (which can appear very brown) Wool uniforms. Both are composed of fibers of distinctly different colors, which when viewed at a distance, blend into one more or less homogeneous shade. However, differing lighting conditions can quickly change the color impression.
I'm looking right at 8 yards of the actual fabric in the form of a genuine London Scottish kilt. Some lighting conditions when photographed make it appear that it is heavily red in color, but believe me it is very subtle in reality.
The color is about as violet as WWII Luftwaffe RLM Braunviolet, that is to say, it isn't actually violet, but suggestively so.
Getting it too pink by taking the red reference literally will result in a pink that just isn't correct.
The color captured in this photo is close, although it can appear more dusty grey in cooler lighting conditions than shown below:
http://www.stephen-roberts.com/1985-01a.jpg
Part of the difficulty capturing this fabric with paint is due to the same quandary found with WWI/WWII British Olive Green (which can appear very brown) Wool uniforms. Both are composed of fibers of distinctly different colors, which when viewed at a distance, blend into one more or less homogeneous shade. However, differing lighting conditions can quickly change the color impression.
Mike S.
A Fixture
Humbrol makes a color (156 Dk Camo Grey) that is pretty much spot on, with a bit of tweaking possibly needed depending on the scale you are using it for:
I'm being a bit persnickety about this because I'm an Illustrator by profession, and we discuss colors like musicians do tone.
I'm being a bit persnickety about this because I'm an Illustrator by profession, and we discuss colors like musicians do tone.
Thanks Mike, I think it will have to be a bit of trial and error. Before I commit to painting the figure. It's just awkward as you said because it appears slightly two tone.
Thanks all,
Carl.
Thanks all,
Carl.
Einion
A Fixture
Mike, you're looking at a single example.Mike S. said:
Einion
Einion
A Fixture
The three photos linked to above by Mike and myself 'disagree' with each other:
one;
two;
three.
And this one disagrees with all three. Which is correct? All of them probably!
No one sample defines the colour. Hodden grey doesn't vary as much as khaki, sure, but it is clearly not always the same (as the varied colour seen in some single photos shows unequivocally, as already mentioned).
Part of the difficulty here, as I mention above, is in varied definitions of colour terms and varied understandings of proper colour terminology. One person's idea of 'red' is not the same as another's (there's a reason I didn't say mid-red above or mention a specific red paint) and be wary of any description that contains redundant terms and doesn't mention hue.
Einion
one;
two;
three.
And this one disagrees with all three. Which is correct? All of them probably!
No one sample defines the colour. Hodden grey doesn't vary as much as khaki, sure, but it is clearly not always the same (as the varied colour seen in some single photos shows unequivocally, as already mentioned).
Part of the difficulty here, as I mention above, is in varied definitions of colour terms and varied understandings of proper colour terminology. One person's idea of 'red' is not the same as another's (there's a reason I didn't say mid-red above or mention a specific red paint) and be wary of any description that contains redundant terms and doesn't mention hue.
Einion
Thanks all, I found a Citadel bizarrely called "Khermi brown". This as a basic pale grey with a slight reddish brown hue. As near as dam it. As it varies in different light, from pinkish to brown to grey.
Cheers again,
Carl.
Cheers again,
Carl.
Mike S.
A Fixture
Not to beat a dead horse, but...
Correct, I am looking at a single example of the REAL fabric, on an ACTUAL extant regimental item (the Kilt), not a series of photographs off the Internet. Additionally, as a professional illustrator for 22+ years, my eye for color is highly developed to say the least. Photos distort and lie, a fact artists are fully aware of. Using them as your sole source of information can be very flawed and deceptive, particularly when it comes to color.
I have not listed actual color mixtures, as this varies greatly depending on the brand and medium of paints used, as well as the scale of the figure depicting the Hodden Grey. Furthermore, it has been mentioned to me in the past that not everyone has the color mixing abilities that a working artist has, and that premixed (or very near) colors are what many modelers rely on. Finding a bottled paint that matches as closely as possible was my primary concern with this recommendation.
Nearly any material used in the manufacture of uniforms will show a variance in shade and hue between batches. However, a common ground for the ideal example of the color originally intended has to be determined for the sake of accurate reproduction. And Pink just isn't it in this case.
Mike thanks, as I said it's difficult to ascertain the colour because of the variation due to light, photography etc. So I had to go for a shade that gave a mean, in tone and hue.
Thanks again to you all,
Carl.
Thanks again to you all,
Carl.
Mike S.
A Fixture
No problem Carl. Ask a simple question to a complex problem, and this is what you get.
