How do we make large scale flags/banners?

[TERRYSOMME1916]

Hi Folks I am currently working on a 1/10 scale bust and wish to add a flag to it, can anyone tell me where I can get thin lead foil in the UK or is there another material that can be use (way back in the day we used tooth paste tubes).
TERRY

 

[megroot]

I used lead foil, but sometimes it isn't good enough.
therefore I made my last flag from Milliput and Greenstuff mixed together.
If give's a strong flag, and you can fold it in anyway you like it.

Marc

 

[Dan Morton]

Same as Marc except I use 40% Magic Sculpt + 60% Kneadatite. You could take this to 30/70 if you want something very stiff and stronger. I put the putty mix on a glass tile which has a thin layer of cornstarch dispersed on its surface. I then use a clear acrylic roller to roll the putty thin enough. Don't go for the thinness of paper, more like art paper or even a bit thicker. Figure out where you are going to put this to dry before you remove it from the tile or whatever you use. Cut the flag to size right there on the glass tile or whatever. If you want damage to the flag (bullet holes, tatters, etc.) do all that before you remove it from the tile. If you want it to have folds, do that with the flag still on the tile and a dry paint brush or even two dry paint brushes. After it's folded and whatever, I usually leave mine on the tile and let it dry thoroughly before removing. Let it air dry - no heat lamp or slow cooker. You'll get bubbles and/or it will un-fold.

All the best,
Dan

 

[TERRYSOMME1916]

Thanks guys I have milliput so I will try that first, does the green stuff and the Magic Sculpt/Kneadatite mix make it easier to work with or is it just for absolute strength? I might get away with the milliput as its only a pennant on a lance like those in your pictures Dan, I am at the dry build stage and I always try to personalise my figures so I would like to add a section of lance complete with colourful pennant but I am not sure if it will work without having to add a lower arm and hand which would be beyond my skills, what you reckon, see pics.
TERRY

 

[Dan Morton]

Just my opinion but I don't think the hand and lower arm would be necessary to make this work.

The MS+Kneadatite combination is, in my opinion, more workable than either Magic Sculpt or Kneadatite separately. In my opinion, it holds shape and detail better. I don't believe it is any more durable.

I can't answer your questions about the Milliput and Green Stuff combination; never tried it. Never used Green Stuff. Tried Milliput and don't care for it.

The only way you'll know which works best for you is to try them and judge for yourself.

All the best,
Dan

 

[TERRYSOMME1916]

Thanks Dan I will crack on with the lance and pennant, I will get the Magic Sculpt etc and give it a go, I will try to post the pics on this thread as I progress.
Terry

 

[1969]

Hi Terry,
Putty will work fine for this project but if you are more comfortable to do it with a product similar to the old toothpaste tubes you can get that material still, it is used to contain Colemans mustard and also tomato purees which are both sold in tubes now days. I use it extensively for all scales, just pop down supermarket buy a tube or two and empty contents to get the foil, it's quite cheap and will give you a good supply for future products.
Cheers
Steve

 

[mick3272]

Hi Terry.
You could try troutcatchers, http://www.troutcatchers.co.uk/lead-tungsten-c102x2679498 . I have not tried the foil sheets yet but I use the 1mm & 2mm strips for belts etc, I have made two purchases and have recived items within a couple of days of ordering.
Mick

 

[theBaron]

Another source for foil is wine bottles, though more and more vintners are switching to a plastic wrapping for the ersatz corks that have replaced real cork.

You could also use kitchen foil. I use this for flags in 54mm, kitchen foil, and also foil salvaged from some chocolates. I laminate them with CA glue between the layers. Here's an example:



I can shape the "cloth" before the glue sets, and once it does, it's nice and firm for handling.

Also, if your dentist hasn't switched to a digital X-ray machine, the film blanks are wrapped in lead foil, though those wrappings are probably a little small for anything but a pennant in 1/10 scale. I got a bucketful of foil from my dentist once. He was glad to get rid of it without having to pay an environmental disposal company's high fee for it.

Hope that helps, prost!
Brad

 

[pokrad]

I remember this trick from my scale modelling days (more than 10 years ago). Best looking flags I got was from baking paper. First prepare solution of white glue (wood glue) and water. The ratio I do not remember, You have to experiment a bit.
Then crumple the baking paper between fingers, straighten it, and dip well in the glue solution. Take it out, and leave it to dry for some time - so the glue hardens a bit and You can form it before glue hardens 100%. You got the very thin, very hard and very natural looking flag...

 

[clrsgt]

What a great question. I have tried magic sculpt, but never the mixes. Darko's use of baking paper is something I am going to try.

 

[Dan Morton]

Thanks Darko - that sounds like it would work really well!

We should start a "What's the best way to make a...?" section on PF. Great ideas sizzle!

All the best,
Dan

 

[ivopreda]

artist shop sell thin copper foil to be carved ... enough thin to be folded correctly and enough rigid also in big dimension

 

[pokrad]

that sounds like it would work really well!

It works, I tried it many times, the only trick is to force the baking paper to soak in enough glue solution (that is why crumple is needed). You can use also other type of paper, it is only important that it can soak glue solution and not break when You pull it out of the jar. I know some guys even use tissue paper. This is "common knowledge" in scale modeller clubs

That copper foil also looks great, I must try this once

 

[Dan Morton]

In the states, Dick Blick carries the foil. http://www.dickblick.com/products/pure-metal-tooling-foil/

All the best,
Dan

 

[theBaron]

artist shop sell thin copper foil to be carved ... enough thin to be folded correctly and enough rigid also in big dimension...

In the states, Dick Blick carries the foil...

Those are good ideas, but for me, they don't satisfy my "do-it-yourself" Dutchy instincts

Prost!
Brad

 

[jai]

This

 

[TERRYSOMME1916]

Great response everyone. so many different things to try, thanks for taking the time to address this, I will let you all know what way I chose in the end.
TERRY

 

[Scotty]

Thanks for the thread, I would like to do a regimental colour in 1:9 at some point so this has been really helpful.
Scotty.

 

[TERRYSOMME1916]

Hi everyone just an update on where I am with the large scale flag issue, I tried using Green Stuff (yellow and blue strip type) but I found it difficult to work with and ended up with a flexible item when it was dry, I didn't like this (probably something to do with the way I mixed it and worked it) so I tried to use thin plastic card, I accurately marked the shape of the pennant onto the card and cut it with a scalpel and got an acceptable looking result.
The task ahead was to bend the this into shape so I firstly dipped it in boiling water which didn't work so I microwaved it (my wife thinks I am nuts) and this didn't work either so the only thing I gained from the plastic card was a good template to try things with so back to the drawing board.
Steve had posted that you could get thin foil from Mustard and Tomato puree tubes and he was spot on so I got myself a tube of Tesco tomato puree for .45p and squirted the contents into the kitchen sink (once again my wife thinks I am nuts) and ended up with something that I reckoned had a good chance of working however I had ordered a thin sheet of .30mm thick brass shim of Amazon and when it arrived I decided to give that a go first.
Using the same measurements that I had used to produce the Plastic card pennant/template I marked these onto the brass shim and carefully cut it out with scissors, this worked a treat so I then used emery paper to remove sharp edges and tidy up the general shape.
The next stage was to bend this into the desired shape so I started by curling the 4 tabs around the shaft of the lance and once I was happy with these I then bent the brass pennant into a rough shape using my fingers followed by smoothing the folds into nicer curves with different thicknesses of paint brush handles until I got the result that I was happy with.
The good thing about using this system is that you can bend the brass folds in and out a little and correct things that don't look just right and you end up with a rigid pennant that will not bend during painting, unfortunately the draw back is that because of its rigidity I could not bend the brass into the exact shape that I had originally planned which was a pennant hanging down with the tail ends wrapping around shaft of the lance and instead I had to settle for the pennant blowing in the wind but I have accepted this by telling myself it will be easier to paint.
The next step will be to secure the pennant to the lance and after that I will use Milliput to fill the joins where the tabs meet the body of the pennant, then it will be down to undercoating and painting and hopefully the use of brass wont cause any problems at this stage.
I will let you know how it goes.
TERRY