How do you feel about figure pricing?

[billyturnip]

Dave, I was the same when I painted round figures. I wouldn't purchase a new figure until I had completed what I was working on. Now I paint almost exclusively flats that are relatively cheap I now have a grey army.
I still think "new & shiny" for most people beats common sense as far as figure purchasing goes and the complete before next purchase painters are in the minority.

Roger.

 

[Colin_Fraser]

One of the drivers for expansion my grey army (or more properly grey platoon) is the fact that many good figures are relesaed and soon go out of production, particularly as many small figure comapnies come and go fairly quickly. I always have in the back of my head "If I don't buy this now and I really want it, I may ever see it again." This is less of an issue with the large manufacturers.

Colin

 

[FigureLover]

When I was younger and single and with less monetry ties, I would spend heaps on the latest kit and not worry about prices, these days I scrutinize what kits I buy. My thought is that its not so much the price of kits going up beyond expectations, it is everything else in life that is going through the roof. Just day to day living is getting expensive while the wage is staying approx the same. My grey army is a lot smaller than what it used to be, but is filled whith what I think are quality kits.
I think we all also expect a lot more from the kits we love than what we did several years ago. I mean we expect the sculptor to have everything historically accurate, right down to each button and the distance between them. If its not, then we are dissapointed. All this takes extra time for a sculptor to sculpt and find references for. Also the kit has to be made of the best quality material, cast to the finest quality and to come in a sturdy box with a very well painted rendition on the front, this all adds to the price of a kit, most kits 10 - 15 years ago were lucky to come in a box with a pencil rendering on the front.
These days I tend to go for what I think is a good product for the amount I am paying for it, I look for an item that I believe will give me hours of pleasure and look great when done in my display cabinet. Most times its from a small time manufacturer that tend to do obsure subjects that look great.
Some maufacturers charge a lot for their product, but in the end its up to you to make the choice to pay what they are asking, if it gives you hours of satisfaction and looks great in the end, wasit worth it??????
Ben

 

[billyturnip]

I've just re-read my post and realized how much like my wife my last comments sounded.
Shame I haven't followed that philosophy... guilty as charged.

Roger.

 

[stu]

In response to colins comments, I must admit to looking seriously at limited runs of some of my figures and busts as the costs to keeping some pieces in production is just not worth it. I will be making these only available from me also ie exclusives.

I may look at also having a rolling production ,so that when the moulds are exhausted to stop its production for a while. I already do this a bit but I am currently looking at what I want to keep producing and what I dont.

I am fortunate that I have a carear as well as a hobby buisness, but for me time is an issue, so the above becomes more important.

If all the manufacturers did this how would that make you feel about figure prices ?????

Also we hear lots of we want this or this, but then when its produced, zero interest, the figures a flop, the buisness fails and you have an instant ebay mega bucks in the future. There are plenty of things I would love to see in production but it just aint viable with the current sales volumes. Low sales are ultimately putting up unit costs and stopping diversity. Its chicken and egg. We have higher prices because of lower sales and increasing costs.

Nobody likes it, I buy figures too.

Stu

 

[mikec55]

Just like the weather, not much we can do about it. I buy on ebay from time to time or wait for an internet sale (which is how I voted). Besides, my gray army is so big, I'll never get them all painted.
Also, my skill level just doesn't justify shelling out the $$$ for the pricier figures. There are many figures I'd like to have but the figure hasn't yet been released that I'd consider a 'must have' to where price is no object.

 

[renarts]

Like anything, its a business that evolves, adapts or dies. Ice cutters bemoaned the advent of the refrigerator. Buggy makers hated the car. Labor Unions hated NAFTA and the Chinese cheap labor market.
Figure manufacturers will have to adapt to a market that will look for a cheaper alternative, a reduced market (thus profits), or a more discerning buyer. I don't mind paying the large sticker prices for figures if the quality and the figure warrant the price. But lately I've seen some crap come out of big companies like Andrea and Pegaso that is very much unwarranted for their pricing. I admit that I look towards resin pieces for their crispness in detail, and less expensive pricing and have walked past companies that charge a premium for metal with little or no thought. I feel like some of those bigger companies are resting on their laurels and reputation for past achievements and some of the newer smaller companies are doing a much better job in their sculpts, their poses and their casts in order to establish a good foundation and make a presence in the market. And because they do not use big houses, and look at it as a part time business in many cases, their pricing is significantly lower because of the lower overhead. Yeah those slick, glossy printed, boxes look pretty on the shelf, but the majority of my figures lately have been bought from companies that use plain brown or white boxes that are not fancy. In fact I remember getting plenty of figures from post militaire with no box art at all. It was a plain brown box with a paper label wrapped in tape. With the internet, the availability of better home printers etc. there is no reason for expensive packaging. A color print out glued to the top of a plain box is fine. I never use the box art for reference anyway.
Sadly, some will fail. Some will be counterfeited. Some will adapt and evolve. Its still an expendable income past time. Its a hobby and I will not die without them. In the mean time, Dragon figures, with Hornet heads look great. And I get 6 of each for less than 1 54mm figure from one of the myriad of figure companies out there. As the market changes and adapts the companies that will be here will have done the same.

 

[T50]

Guys, I'll come clean here.

I live in a 5 million dollar mansion with 4 car garage in the Hamptons.
I drive several luxury cars. So does my wife. I go to Turks and Caicos for
a vacation, where I own a sumptuous villa, a few times year. I fly first class
only and stay at 5 star hotels. I hang out with celebrities and have my own
table at the Club 21. I wear custom made shoes in alligator skin, and my wife
carries Hermes and Chanel bags only.

I can only afford to do all these because I sell resin figures to modelers
at a unreasonably inflated price and make a killing. So I thank you all.

But now that you guys found out the dirty little secret, I guess I would have
to start charging a reasonable MSRP and go back to my tiny 2 room house,
eating $4 lunch, and shopping at a local Walmart.... so depressed!

 

[stu]

Taesung

thought it was you and mike at that celeb bash for figure manufacturers

 

[renarts]

I thought that was you that I saw in Monaco on Albert's yacht. Sadly Taesung, funny you mention that. I think its that willingness to shop at Wal Mart that so many people bemoan the high price of figures. After all, if they can get a 60" flat screen tv for $600 then a metal 4" figure should be way less than 10% the price of that tv.
Imagine what figures would cost if people still bought them from brick and mortar stores rather than at shows and over the internet. The necessary mark-up would kill the market. (Or the store. Which it has.)
As a screenprinter, I see it alot. I get asked why my shirts cost a certain price for wholesale when they can get a printed shirt at Wal Mart retail for less. My usual answer is when they buy 10K units I'll get closer to the Wal Mart price, and when Wal Mart starts printing custom shirts then they can argue with me over price. When prices go up I have two choices. One is to raise my prices (which the market may or may not handle) the other is to look for ways to cut costs elsewhere or offer more service as a way to stay competative and maintain pricing. I make my bills, keep my dogs in kibble and have some left over for figures and other things. But you won't see me at that Cannes film festival either and I still must endure the hints and complaints that I charge too much (even though they'll keep coming back) or that I must be getting rich because I own my own business and rake in the dough, take extravagant vacations and keep my wife in the manner of which she has become accustomed to. Don't take it personally. People have to vent. And an opinion is different from an action. When you see sales nose dive, then there's a problem you'll have to address. Till then, pass the Grey Poupon would you Ol' Boy?

 

[Ferris]

Very interesting to read the link with Pegaso's business case numbers. I for one trust his numbers and would not choose to be a figure producer if I wanted to get rich.

It was mentioned that there are much more manufacturors today that 20 years ago. I recognise this. Thinking about it, this could contribute to the decline of brick and mortar shops. Stock on shelves should be extremely large in order to be able to satisfy customer's random wish lists.

Are prices too high? I think the question is not the right one. Prices are the way they are. The question is, when do we stop buying a figure? Buying something means you value that something higher than the value of keeping the money in your pocket.

Here's a thought. The cost of our hobby can be defined as the amount of money we spend on it per month or year. I would like to ask to everyone that voted for 'too expensive' particularly, the monthly or yearly value of figures that actually ends in the display cabinet, finished completely, compared to the value of all figures bought? In many cases, most of what we buy ends in what we call the grey army. So if we think the hobby is getting too expensive, we can likely cut the monthly expenditure in half easily, just by being more realistic in what will be painted or not.

I once commented on someone's diorama which used an enormous amount of expensive after market stuff. The guy's approach was that he only bought what he needed, and that, per year, this was actually less than what I spent stocking shelves.

Anyhow, I am totally guilty of buying more than I can paint and call browsing my own shelves of unpainted figures part of the hobby now. The discipline I reserve for other aspects of life....

Adrian

 

[theBaron]

I appreciate the work that goes in to producing a figure, from sculpting the master, to making the mold, to casting, and then to advertising and handling orders, packaging and shipping them. It's like any product.

Having said that, I'm a consumer, and so, I have to make my own decisions about what I spend. So, I look for the best deal I can find, which usually means that I buy things on the secondary market, and I try to follow my own rules for prices I pay.

Prost!
Brad

 

[Don]

Some very interesting posts on this thread. However I believe a lot of people are overlooking the major factor in all this, Market Prices. When I started in this hobby oil cost $30 a barrel, went down for a while to around $13 bbl and now never seems to drop below $120-130bbl.
This affects price of resin, the production costs of metals, and this is the major problem in todays costs.
Sculptors and Manufacturers tend to keep prices as low as possible (too high and they wont sell) and as we have read, prices amongst sculptors and manufacturers have flatlined for some years. They are doing their best to stay in the trade but really some cant afford to. Quite a few of the manuf. I know have other jobs to pay the bills (and the hobby) and are happy if they can produce a few figures that "make it", some of the larger companies need more staff and the staff has to be paid for. They also have to pay for factory/warehouse/office space, so try not to be to hard on them, they are trying to pay the staff and overheads and keep prices down.
The answer as far as I can see for the punter is just buy the very best figures you can, the ones you really want, and dont do like we all do and buy everything we see. Look for the best and buy the best but only if its what you consider is a fair price.
We all have figures we will never paint, how about a gigantic bring and buy? Bring some of your expences down a wee bit.
The answer lies with the modeller not the producer, even if its not all their fault!

Don