How do you rate the judging at the shows?

[Roc]

Thought it would be interesting to see how you feel about the judging at the various shows.

Personally I paint for my own personal satisfaction and could care less about awards.


Cheers
Roc.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

I voted good, but the verdict varies a lot depending on the show.

Some show also have different criteria which might alter result. I myself is in favor of just judging the craft and skill. Not historical accuracy(except for the obvious) or the difficulty.

Worst result usually is produced at shows were the exhibitors themselves.

On the other hand I think most of the judges strives to make it perfect and most would rather go shopping or socialize rather than spend 2 hours or more on judging.

Cheers

 

[megroot]

I have done not much shows.
But what i see is that they do it in m y opinion good. I think that the personal interest from to judge count into the points of the figure he is judging.
For instance. if a judge like Napoleontics more, i think he gives maybe 1 point more to a Napoleontic then on a Celtic figure.

Just my two cents.

Marc

 

[Frank-Holger]

I was at no show till today but have read the giant discussion in Historical Miniatures about, in first case, Euromilitaire which was very emotional an put not a good light on that show, especially on the judgement. The most readers had a very negative opinion on that...

But for someone who hasn´t been attended to that show it is difficult to proof.

Frank

 

[garyjd]

I like seeing nice work. The judging and awards do nothing for me personally. If we are to be judged then let it be by our own figure painting/sculpting peers. I'm a bit turned off when COLLECTORS are made judges. What makes their opinion(s) any better from that of other painters, or the viewing public that attend shows that are NOT judges? As I see it the $$$s they spend are the only thing that sets them apart from us. To me this is one aspect of shows that leaves the hobbiest by the wayside. ~Gary

 

[JohnLea]

IMO, judging must not only be beyond reproach, it should have the appearance of being beyond reproach.

To have collectors judge at shows gives people valid reasons to be concerned about the results since collectors may own, be about to buy (and possibly resell) the items being judged. Does a gold bring more money than a silver or bronze or a certificate? Collectors could have a vested interest in judging outcomes.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

Originally posted by Frank-Holger@Aug 19 2006, 05:53 AM
I was at no show till today but have read the giant discussion in Historical Miniatures about, in first case, Euromilitaire which was very emotional an put not a good light on that show, especially on the judgement. The most readers had a very negative opinion on that...

But for someone who hasn´t been attended to that show it is difficult to proof.

Frank

What was written there, Frank?

I ony buy occasional issues when I order cross the pond.

 

[Frank-Holger]

Janne, when I remember correctly, the whole discussion began with some letters from fellow modellers, who weren´t as happy with the judging as one might think. A lot of our italian friends went without even a mention and had some of the best figures shown there. These letters raised a discussion about the quality of the judges themself, harsh words were written and a lot of contributors said, they won´t never ever show their figures there...

I guess it is not so easy to judge figures at a competition, even in different classes, but: In my opinion ONLY the figure has to count. It is not of interest if I, as a judge, like more the napoleonic or WWII stuff, the figure, the sculpt or paintjob is the only thing that matters. On the other hand, I can´t compare a Germanic Warrior to a WWII Soldier and say, hey, ther Germanic Warrior is more difficult to paint than the WWII Soldier, so he is in general better. And this is, what happened the most.

How will you judge here in a right way? Maybe a solution is to make more classes. It is easier to compare only modern soldiers with eaxh other than different time periods...

Nevertheless, dificult!

Frank

 

[Ernest]

I voted "Mediocre" cause in Venezuela the Judges organaize the expos and also participate in the expos and they judges each eather and of course they get all the medals and all the prizes. Also they do very stupids crtics without a base. This is not only for figures but for anything else, aircraft, cars, tanks..etc...The result of all this, less people participate in expos here, it's a shame because this is a fantastic hobby and we have some ignorants individuals that don't want to change for the good of this hobby...

ER

 

[Uruk-Hai]

Sorry to hear that Ernesto.

Perhaps its time to start a new show.

Frank
Thanks for the clarification.

Cheers

 

[slaj]

IN MY HUMBLE OPINION YOU SHOULD NEVER JUDGE YOUR WORK ACCORDING TO SHOW RESULTS !!!!!

I say this as a modeller and also as a judge. A show result is another person's opinion and he may/ may not like a particular piece. But if you're judging you have to ' remove ' yourself and your personal tastes for that particular moment. I don't really like WW2 figures AS A SUBJECT but I know a good figure when I see one and that doesn't stop me from awarding that figure the respective award.

Frank, the incident you mention is still very clear in my mind. That's because I started it. Now after 5 years I think that it did a lot of good because many things have improved since. Just to make one thing very clear....... when I started the thing I was critisising the system and NOT the judges. They're humans too !!!!

Stephen Mallia

 

[Frank-Holger]

Stephen, great to hear that! I hat to check all the issues back to be exact, it was something in my mind that there was something against the judging system. Anyway, the best at all is, that some things are in motion now and how much can be achieved with permanent "action". And I will read the whole discussion again!

Frank

 

[Roc]

I voted good, I know most of the judges are honest and really try hard to judge a figure based on its quality and not on his personal likes and dislikes; albeit
I have personally observed and witnessed some shameful incidences at shows, and I assure you, very disgusting to say the least.

I once observed a Judge who now resides in the Red Lancer's Dead Beat list tell another judge "don't look at this display, I don't like this guy",
My friends, this is disgusting and unacceptable behavior, what is more upsetting is that he was allowed to continue judging year after year.

Just my two cents

Cheers
Roc.

 

[Einion]

Oh man! It so depends on the show (and in some cases the actual judging team).

Einion

 

[Paul Kernan]

Being human, it is nice to have your work recognised for its worth and in the beginning medals were important as that measure of recognisition. Nowadays, having met a lot of great painters and made good friends with a number of them, it is the show that is the entire package or experience. I do not travel for hours on end, drop a lot of hard earned cash and damage my liver for the sake of a piece of metal.

With this in mind, I believe that most judges do the job with the very best intent. Whether the individual is fully qualified and knowledgeable is another topic. There are always a few results that cause me to scratch my head. Usually, IMHO that have been underrated. On the other hand, I have also seen mediocre (again IMHO) pieces by 'masters' that have won gold. Are judges embarrassed to award a bronze/silver to a consistent gold winner?

The entries that do drive me crazy are the 'in progress' pieces. They are interesting to look at but to have these incomplete pieces in competition is ridiculous. Have them exhibit but not compete.

 

[pkw4]

I think i agree with Paul.
Sometimes the judging is a bit puzzling.
Roberto

 

[Uruk-Hai]

Paul
Vere well said(written), could not agree more. Ive also made the observation that some "old master" got goldmedals even thouhg not up todays standards.

Stephen
I remember that, and also noted that it changed for the better. When this issue was first described I thought it to be more recent.

Cheers

 

[PJ Deluhery]

I too voted “good.” I agree with Roc that most judges are honest and try their best; and overall, judging at most of the shows I attend is pretty good. That said, judges are human too; and I too have heard comments like the ones Roc mentions. Also, from time to time some of the awards results suggest a certain bias, whether conscious or unconscious.

In my opinion, if there is one subject that creates consistent dissention and unhappiness among our community it is the subject of judging. However well executed, the ranking of some work over others creates what I think is needless dissatisfaction and bad feelings among many in our community. While the idea of a contest with awards and creating a hierarchy of “masters” may have been good at one time, I think this whole approach has outlived its usefulness. It now creates far more negative energy than it is worth – regardless of how good or bad the judging is.

I enjoy going to shows and seeing the fantastic displays of work at all levels. I also enjoy showing my work, and it is a thrill for me just to be “on the table.” I like seeing old friends again, meeting new ones, and mixing with other painters and interested observers. I get inspiration and ideas that push me to be a better painter/modeler. However, all this could be done very nicely without a contest. Instead, there should be an “exhibition” without any formal judging. That way, those selling their pieces or wishing just to show their work could continue to do so, and no one’s work is elevated over another’s, except perhaps in the minds of those attending.

My local club started doing an annual exhibition a number of years ago, and I continue to be amazed at how the absence of a contest changes the whole flavor of the show experience. There are no “winners” or “losers,” and no one feels his work is ignored or underappreciated.

I think shows would be more successful if the organizers dropped the contest in favor of an exhibition, and strived to find new ways for exhibitors and attendees to meet and discuss their opinions and ideas (and, of course, spend hellish amounts of money at the vendors!) My two cents!

 

[pkess]

We actually tried an exhibition with no competition several years ago in Williamsburg, VA. A really great area for a show. The problem is no one wanted to attend a show without a competition. Those of us who attended had a great time and it really made for a fun weekend. I was the seminar organizer and we had three informative presentations each day. We broke even on the costs and had a third show but added a competition to increase attendance.

 

[Charles Denomolos]

Well, first off, I never compete. While many find a reward or recognition for their work gratifying, it's never been high on my list of things that matter.

While I don't compete, I do see what is happening, I do hear what is being said and done during judging. I don't repeat it, I don't add to it, but, I still witness it.

From the shows I have gone to, and from what I have observed, I HONESTLY TRULY feel that the VAST majority of the judges BUST THEIR HUMP to do a good job. Some take it too seriously, some not seriously enough. It goes both ways.

I think it is human nature to focus on the negative, and dismiss the positive. Some have pointed out very specific examples of behavior that is obviously intolerable, and yet, nobody has mentioned the judges that go til 2 in the morning, taking a pass on sitting down with their pals at the bar, and are back on the road home after the show.

Folks, by all means, if you really feel the judging is SO bad, don't compete. Put a "DISPLAY ONLY" sign up, and enjoy the show. The powers that be will see sooner or later if their system needs correcting.

Sorry for the long post.