How to harden the putty
- Thread starter Calvin
- Start date
Help Support planetFigure:
garyjd
Well-Known Member
Magicsculpt is a little flexible when dry, especially in areas where it is not too thick. You may try mixing in a little bit of another putty to help strengthen it.~Gary
A
Alan
Guest
deleted
Anders Heintz
Well-Known Member
Try to put the finished sculpt under a 100W lightbulb for 10-15 minutes, you would be surprised how much harder it will cure. Also, if you have a crock pot set it on low/medium and 'cook' it for about 20 minutes. Seams like a heatsource will make the putty harder then if it is cured by it self.
Anders Heintz
Well-Known Member
Hehe, we have the same temperatures here, but inside with nice cool A/C its not too bad!
I bet the lamp will help you out tons along with the different mixture, try on a spare piece of putty and compare the consistency when carving on one thats been air cured and one thats been heat cured.
I bet the lamp will help you out tons along with the different mixture, try on a spare piece of putty and compare the consistency when carving on one thats been air cured and one thats been heat cured.
Guayo
New Member
Here in Nicaragua you have to work fast, the temperature is almost 40c, but I always use the lamp for 20 minutes.
Good Luck on your works Luca
Eduardo
Good Luck on your works Luca
Eduardo
Einion
Well-Known Member
Hi Luca, MagicSculp should easily be strong enough on its own to withstand casting as obviously there are a number of sculptors that use it alone, but it depends on what exactly you're working on and how it will be cast how cautious you might have to be about finer details and thin sections. If you're sculpting for resin casting from RTV moulds I wouldn't worry too much but if you're intending the piece for metal casting from vulcanised rubber moulds one will often engineer the sculpt accordingly so that there are less-pronounced undercuts and thicker edges, that sort of thing, which is one reason metal figures can look a little crude in comparison to resin.
If you do want to maximise the strength of your MagicSculp, heating certainly does seem to increase the hardness but I think it's just speeding up complete curing - MS is noticeably harder a week after it has set than the following day after sculpting if you do a comparison. One of the best ways in my experience to ensure a good hard set is simply to very thoroughly mix the putty - about double the normal time you'd blend it, particularly if you really forcefully smear it together after it is initially combined - although this will cut down on the available working time I should warn you; then either heat-set the putty or wait for a few days for it to achieve its full cure. I would be careful about increasing the proportion of hardener over 50% as it is the resin that hardens, the hardener is just the chemical catalyst for the process, so increases in its proportion can reduce final toughness.
I'd definitely suggest trying a blend of MS with Kneadatite for thin sections to improve flexibility, this works really well and helps improve adhesion for small applications too, which you might find a bonus. If you do want to make the putty noticeably harder I would go with Alan's tip of blending in some A+B as this is 100% reliable and repeatable. Any blend of putties will affect the working characteristics (sometimes quite a bit) so a little practice might be necessary before you'll get the results you want.
Einion
If you do want to maximise the strength of your MagicSculp, heating certainly does seem to increase the hardness but I think it's just speeding up complete curing - MS is noticeably harder a week after it has set than the following day after sculpting if you do a comparison. One of the best ways in my experience to ensure a good hard set is simply to very thoroughly mix the putty - about double the normal time you'd blend it, particularly if you really forcefully smear it together after it is initially combined - although this will cut down on the available working time I should warn you; then either heat-set the putty or wait for a few days for it to achieve its full cure. I would be careful about increasing the proportion of hardener over 50% as it is the resin that hardens, the hardener is just the chemical catalyst for the process, so increases in its proportion can reduce final toughness.
I'd definitely suggest trying a blend of MS with Kneadatite for thin sections to improve flexibility, this works really well and helps improve adhesion for small applications too, which you might find a bonus. If you do want to make the putty noticeably harder I would go with Alan's tip of blending in some A+B as this is 100% reliable and repeatable. Any blend of putties will affect the working characteristics (sometimes quite a bit) so a little practice might be necessary before you'll get the results you want.
Einion
Thanks Einion,
I'm trying with my first original and to make easy the sculpting I've planned to do a really few number of pieces, only the trunk, the forearms (the arms are on the trunk) and the head.
One of the hand is keeping a book (leaning on the stomach), which I'll sculpt together with the trunk, but I don't know if this will be a problem when making the mould (for the integrity of the book and for the mould).
I'm trying with my first original and to make easy the sculpting I've planned to do a really few number of pieces, only the trunk, the forearms (the arms are on the trunk) and the head.
One of the hand is keeping a book (leaning on the stomach), which I'll sculpt together with the trunk, but I don't know if this will be a problem when making the mould (for the integrity of the book and for the mould).
Hi,
superglue will actually be affected by heat and pressure when going through a vulcanizing mouldmaking process. From the way I understood it, it will dissolve. So even if it would stiffen the putty the effect will be lost during mouldmaking.
There is still a bit of discussion on whether or not superglue can be used on models who go through this process. I know of some mouldmaker who have had bad experiences with it while others are ok with it. There are even sculptors who use it to cover small bits like rivets. Personally I would avoid it.
Bye, Ming-Hua
superglue will actually be affected by heat and pressure when going through a vulcanizing mouldmaking process. From the way I understood it, it will dissolve. So even if it would stiffen the putty the effect will be lost during mouldmaking.
There is still a bit of discussion on whether or not superglue can be used on models who go through this process. I know of some mouldmaker who have had bad experiences with it while others are ok with it. There are even sculptors who use it to cover small bits like rivets. Personally I would avoid it.
Bye, Ming-Hua
If it has to go through a vulcanized rubber mould proces, yes. Here is some info from the 1listsculpting FAQ:
*****
3.3 -What materials should I not use?
If a miniature is not going to be vulcanized, then you are pretty much free in your choices of materials. Otherwise, vulcanization usually subjects a miniature to high temperature (about 350 Fahrenheit/ 177 degrees Centigrade) and pressure (about 50PSI/ 3.45 bar). This means that some materials can cause problems like:
Plastic They can melt.
Wax This melts.
Superglue This liquefies which can affect the mold. It can work if covered with putty. Check this with the mold-maker as some do not seem to be troubled by it. See 3.14.
Resin This should also be checked with the caster. If you use a resin, you have to be careful about enclosed air bubbles. These would collapse during vulcanization of the mold. See 5.14.
Metal Tubing These can collapse under the pressure and if they are enclosed on both sides, the seals on the ends can pop off. If tubes are used, then they should be totally filled with putty for support and to avoid enclosed air spaces.
Lead This can be too soft. It's better to use brass.
Malleable Materials They can deform.
Aluminium This can sometimes be a problem. Check with the mold maker.
Brittle Materials Like certain clays, can crumble or explode from impurities overheating.
Ren Shape It's porous and will fill up with rubber, which makes cleaning the mold a problem.
Wood Saps and resins in the wood can damage the rubber or boil off, causing deformations and possible ruptures.
Low-Melt Alloys Make sure that, whatever metal you use for parts, the melting temperature is above the vulcanization temperature.
When in doubt, always check with the mold-maker. This does not mean that a mold can not be made if parts are made of these materials. There are different techniques for this, such making a cast of it first, using a room temperature vulcanizing rubber mould or using a vulcanization process at lower temperatures -but not all mold-makers are willing to or can go to this extra effort.
*****
One remark to be added in the future: polymer clay masters are not accepted by all casters either. They stand less chance of surviving. Nevertheless, excellent figures have been made with it.
The FAQ is found at the 1listsculpting group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/1listsculpting/ and here: http://www.lyonstudio.com/Sculpting/1lists...g_FAQ_v2-4a.pdf
Bye, Ming-Hua
*****
3.3 -What materials should I not use?
If a miniature is not going to be vulcanized, then you are pretty much free in your choices of materials. Otherwise, vulcanization usually subjects a miniature to high temperature (about 350 Fahrenheit/ 177 degrees Centigrade) and pressure (about 50PSI/ 3.45 bar). This means that some materials can cause problems like:
Plastic They can melt.
Wax This melts.
Superglue This liquefies which can affect the mold. It can work if covered with putty. Check this with the mold-maker as some do not seem to be troubled by it. See 3.14.
Resin This should also be checked with the caster. If you use a resin, you have to be careful about enclosed air bubbles. These would collapse during vulcanization of the mold. See 5.14.
Metal Tubing These can collapse under the pressure and if they are enclosed on both sides, the seals on the ends can pop off. If tubes are used, then they should be totally filled with putty for support and to avoid enclosed air spaces.
Lead This can be too soft. It's better to use brass.
Malleable Materials They can deform.
Aluminium This can sometimes be a problem. Check with the mold maker.
Brittle Materials Like certain clays, can crumble or explode from impurities overheating.
Ren Shape It's porous and will fill up with rubber, which makes cleaning the mold a problem.
Wood Saps and resins in the wood can damage the rubber or boil off, causing deformations and possible ruptures.
Low-Melt Alloys Make sure that, whatever metal you use for parts, the melting temperature is above the vulcanization temperature.
When in doubt, always check with the mold-maker. This does not mean that a mold can not be made if parts are made of these materials. There are different techniques for this, such making a cast of it first, using a room temperature vulcanizing rubber mould or using a vulcanization process at lower temperatures -but not all mold-makers are willing to or can go to this extra effort.
*****
One remark to be added in the future: polymer clay masters are not accepted by all casters either. They stand less chance of surviving. Nevertheless, excellent figures have been made with it.
The FAQ is found at the 1listsculpting group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/1listsculpting/ and here: http://www.lyonstudio.com/Sculpting/1lists...g_FAQ_v2-4a.pdf
Bye, Ming-Hua
quang
Active Member
Hello Ming-Hua,
With due respect, I'm glad I didn't read your caveats BEFORE going into this business.
Ignorance can be a blessing (sometimes).
Q.
With due respect, I'm glad I didn't read your caveats BEFORE going into this business.
Ignorance can be a blessing (sometimes).
Q.
Hi Q,
not sure I'm understanding your comment but the most important rule in that list is actually "When in doubt, always check with the mold-maker".
Background of that list: it's a collection of comments we got from the professional mouldmakers on 1listsculpting who specialise in production of 28mm figures in white metals and resins used vulcanised natural rubber moulds. Those are materials to avoid if you want to use what seems to be the regular mouldmaking process. Models with these materials can be processed but need much more work and care (like polymer clays) which makes production costs higher. And most people want to avoid it.
Bye, Ming-Hua
P.s. if anybody has comments or additions, please let me know. The FAQ is to be updated regularly so any info is welcome.
not sure I'm understanding your comment but the most important rule in that list is actually "When in doubt, always check with the mold-maker".
Background of that list: it's a collection of comments we got from the professional mouldmakers on 1listsculpting who specialise in production of 28mm figures in white metals and resins used vulcanised natural rubber moulds. Those are materials to avoid if you want to use what seems to be the regular mouldmaking process. Models with these materials can be processed but need much more work and care (like polymer clays) which makes production costs higher. And most people want to avoid it.
Bye, Ming-Hua
P.s. if anybody has comments or additions, please let me know. The FAQ is to be updated regularly so any info is welcome.
quang
Active Member
Hello Ming Hua,
All I said was that I like experimenting and if I had to follow too rigid rules, i wouldn't do anything at all. But that's just me. :lol:
Otherwise, I appreciate your input greatly and I believe it's a big help to the budding sculptors out there.
Thanks for sharing!
Quang
All I said was that I like experimenting and if I had to follow too rigid rules, i wouldn't do anything at all. But that's just me. :lol:
Otherwise, I appreciate your input greatly and I believe it's a big help to the budding sculptors out there.
Thanks for sharing!
Quang
quang
Active Member
Hello Luca,
If there's any sarcasm in my remark, it was directed only at myself. :lol:
I, too appreciated Ming Hua's input and said so in my last post.
Q.
If there's any sarcasm in my remark, it was directed only at myself. :lol:
I, too appreciated Ming Hua's input and said so in my last post.
Q.
No worries Luca.
Q, experimenting is very important and should be encouraged. It's one of my favourite things to do as well. Things on that list are a tad harder to test without the proper equipment. So casters already did the experimenting for us. Though some "experiments" were not on purpose (a RAFM caster told me about a surprise he had when a sculptor made a master using low melt metal without warning him - it sprayed right out of the mould during vulcanization!).
Anyway, hope you guys cn use the info and as I said, if you have additional comments, let me know or post it here.
Bye, Ming-Hua
Q, experimenting is very important and should be encouraged. It's one of my favourite things to do as well. Things on that list are a tad harder to test without the proper equipment. So casters already did the experimenting for us. Though some "experiments" were not on purpose (a RAFM caster told me about a surprise he had when a sculptor made a master using low melt metal without warning him - it sprayed right out of the mould during vulcanization!).
Anyway, hope you guys cn use the info and as I said, if you have additional comments, let me know or post it here.
Bye, Ming-Hua
