In at the deep end

[mvonb]

I had a windfall this week and decided to start putting some sculpting equipment together, with the aim of scratching/converting 1/35 WWII figures. Any help in my next shopping list would be greatly appreciated.

MfG

Martin

 

[John Long]

I would add a couple of sizes of sewing needles, a decent round #1 paintbrush, and some sort of smooting agent (like petroleum jelly, or hand lotion). Somewhere in the forum is a thread that outlines many of the tools used for this type of thing. Be sure to show us your progress.

 

[Dan Morton]

Steel wool, toothpicks, protective gloves(!) and good ventilation of your work area. Magicsculpt is a very good sculpting product. I use it myself. It contains epichlorohydrin. I don't want to alarm you or any other new sculptor. Just a word of caution. You can look up the chemical easily enough on the internet and www.tcs.org (The Compleat Sculptor) has the material safety data sheet for Magicsculpt.

All the best,
Dan

 

[Jeff]

Ok I am not a Doctor, but I just went and looked up the EPA study on the epichlorohydrin. It seems to me the amount we are using should not pose a real risk. But you can read for yourself.

http://www.epa.gov/iris/subst/0050.htm

 

[Kevin D.]

Holy Legalese Batman... What did all that stuff mean???

Ok, I went to the link, read for a while and went cross eyed. I didn't think I was stupid until now... would someone like to synopsize for me (as I too get more and more into sculpting)?

Also, when and how do you use the smoothing agents?

Thanks,

Kevin D.

 

[Jeff]

Ok some of it is over my head as well but after reading the aminal study it seems they gave rats and mice high doses and it did cause some problems. This is what I thought showed it should not pose a high risk to us it talks about people who make the stuff.

" Inadequate. A retrospective cohort mortality study has been conducted on 864 workers from epichlorohydrin-producing plants in Louisiana and Texas (Enterline, 1981). Deaths were compared by cause with those expected for the states of Louisiana and Texas. An interim report showed workers to have less than expected overall mortality, but an increase (not significant) in both respiratory cancer and leukemia mortality. An update on the exposed cohort, however, indicated a reversal of this trend. The study is complicated by the fact that of those 10 workers diagnosed with lung cancer, seven were smokers, one was a nonsmoker, and the smoking history of two was not known. Furthermore, there is no apparent dose-response trend, and there is the confounding exposure to the isopropyl alcohol manufacturing process concomitant with epichlorohydrin.

A retrospective cohort mortality study of 533 chemical workers (Shellenberger et al., 1979) and an historic prospective study of European workers (Tassignon et al., 1983) failed to demonstrate a connection between epichlorohydrin and increased cancer mortality. The first study is inadequate for valid carcinogenicity assessment because of low exposure, short exposure duration, short study period, and the young age of the cohort. The second study suffers from some of the same limitations, as well as that of a small cohort size with at least 10 years exposure (274 individuals). "

Again I do not think we are in much danger. We would more then likely suffer more form living with a smokers second hand smoke.

Back to sculpting. I use water to smooth out my work.

 

[Einion]

Hi Martin, here's the thread I think John refers to above, Tools of the trade. It wasn't intended to be about sculpting tools only but there's a lot of info on them within it.

FWIW you can definitely do a lot with only a few tools but you might need to try a number for yourself to see what works best for you - a lot of the tools I have made and used in the past for sculpting I don't require any longer but they were worth trying. As you'll see in the thread most of my sculpting is now done with only two steel sculpting tools, the first that I bought, because they just naturally suit the way I work currently.

Einion

 

[Blind Pew]

Dear Martin, firstly let me says that I am NO SCULPTER. But I have dabbled a bit from time to time, as most painters have, even if only to improve rubbish figures.

Find what works for you and stick to it. If you asked 10 different sculpters what they use, you'd get 10 different answers........
best of luck with it.

 

[mvonb]

To everyone who answered, thanks a million. I realise that sculpting is a personal activity and there is no one ideal answer. There is still one question, why do people use vaseline or handcream as a smoothing agent? This one has eluded me so far in my searches. As soon as I get some armatures started, I will be showing you my works.

MfG

Martin

 

[Dan Morton]

I apologize for confusing or frightening you. That was not my intent.

Jeff - Yes, I've read the EPA information you quote. As well as the National Toxicology Program and International Agency for Research on Cancer. Epichlorohydrin is a listed human carcinogen. Diglycidyl ether of Bis-phenol compounds are not. Anyway, that's not the issue I was trying to point out to a fellow novice sculptor.

Most respectfully, I would ask you not to minimize the potential health issues from exposure to Magic-Sculp or most 2 part putties Most contain epichlorohydrin or a bis-phenol compound or some other similar chemical. These are present as resin hardening catalysts (I believe). I think there is a tendency for many to completely disregard the potential risks and not take sensible, reasonable precautions. Reasonable precautions include using rubber gloves to keep putties off your skin. Epichlorohydrin is a 'sensitizer' and it easily enters intact skin. The other chemicals used in 2 part putties may have similar issues. With repeated unprotected exposures they will produce increasingly stronger allergic reactions - that's what 'sensitizer' means. Reasonable precautions also include good general ventilation in your work room.

I use Magic-Sculp and like it as a product. I also use very thin nitrile rubber gloves (sold in Wal-Mart) and a room fan and (whenever possible) an open window. When finished sculpting, I wash up thoroughly. In my case, since I have a tendency toward bronchitis, I also use a respirator with organic vapor cartridges. None of this prevents me from sculpting although I did have to adapt a bit.

Read the Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS) on Magic-Sculp. It is at www.sculpt.com or The Compleat Sculptor. Remember there are two MSDSs - one on the resin and one on the hardener. Let me summarize both for you -
Section IV - Both compounds will burn. Avoid open flames and don't smoke when using MS or better yet, just don't smoke at all.
Section V - Avoid getting resin, hardener, or mixed putty in your eyes! Don't rub your eyes with contaminated hands or gloves. If you do get it in your eyes, immediately rinse with water and get medical attention! If you have a tendency toward any type of respiratory illness and/or if breathing becomes difficult, leave the room, wash up thoroughly and if it gets worse, get medical attention! In this section, the manufacturer says that both the resin and hardener are moderate skin sensitizers and can produce sensitization, irritation, and dermatitis on skin. From other sources, I've also read that they may be able to produce respiratory effects or worsen pre-existing respiratory illnesses.

Section VIII - This is the manufacturers recommendations for safe use. The manufacturer recommends using rubber gloves and good ventilation. If you need it, the manufacturer recommends using a respirator with organic vapor cartridges. If anybody on the forum wants to use a respirator, contact me and I'll help you pick one.

Lastly, I am a novice sculptor, but not a novice in the field of safety and health. I've been an ABIH board-certified Industrial Hygienist since 1991 and been working at the professional level in the field since the mid-80s.

All the best,
Dan Morton, CIH

 

[Jeff]

Dan, you are an expert here and I a novice at the very best. Yes you should use gloves or at the very least wash your hands after direct exposure. I do this all the time when I work with Magic Sculpt. I am not trying to say there are no risks. Many of the things we use in our hobby pose some sort of risk. I am not trying to tell any one not to take precautions.

Most of us here are using very small amounts of the stuff. Most of us are working on more or less small scale figures. You can only work a small area at a time with this material unless you are really really fast. Touch the stuff as little as possible with your hands. Once it is on the figure I usually only touch it with the sculpting tools. If I touch it or get it on my hands I wash my hands. I took the time to read the MDS on Magic Sculpt at your sugestion. Everything you say is true. I still feel that our exposure is at much lower rate then the test subjects in the EPA tests be they animal or human. I still see our risk level as low. So use reasonable precautions open a window or use a respirator if opening a window is impractial for some reason or you are very sensitive. Wear gloves to mix and handel it.

Again not trying to tell any one not to be careful. I will add I have found more disturbing side effects listed with some of the other hobby products I use but this is the sculpting fourm.


Best
Jeff

 

[Dan Morton]

Thanks, Jeff and yes, I agree, we are not getting anything approaching an "industrial" or "lab test" level. My concern is to have everyone involved in the hobby be forewarned and take the precautions you reinforced in your post. Most people using these products can use them safely and never acquire a sensitization allergy if they follow the precautions. A few have pre-existing respiratory ailments, allergies or similar problems and have to take extra steps.

A hobby should not make anyone sick!

All the best,
Dan

 

[Jeff]

Dan,

You keep on telling us if you think something is Dangerous! A lot of us do not pay near enough attention to labels and very few of us read the MSDS. I read them due to what I do for a living I am a professional model maker and I am required to read them when working with chemicals that could pose a problem. You are absolutely right our hobby should not make us sick. It is very easy to get lazy about this kind of stuff.

Best
Jeff

 

[garyjd]

Guys, Thanks for all the info. This is a subject I probably do not pay near enough attention to. I do wash my hands regularly regardless of wheather it's sculpey or putty, and do what I can to limit my exposure to anything that could be of harm. I recently toyed with the idea of getting into wetplate photography and can tell you the chemistry involved in getting an image is downright scary, if not potentially life threatening. Anyway I'm sure the information will prove to be helpful to those of us that use the materials in question.~Gary

 

[minimaker]

Originally posted by mvonb@Mar 25 2006, 01:30 PM
To everyone who answered, thanks a million. I realise that sculpting is a personal activity and there is no one ideal answer. There is still one question, why do people use vaseline or handcream as a smoothing agent? This one has eluded me so far in my searches. As soon as I get some armatures started, I will be showing you my works.

MfG

Martin

>There is still one question, why do people use vaseline or handcream as a smoothing agent? This one has eluded me so far in my searches.

The basic function of these is to keep putty from sticking to you tools so you can pull it over the putty without the surface getting pulled away. You can also use water, spit or even nose/forehead grease but all this depends on personal preference. I usually use lipbalm since it's easy to carry around and in public (when I travel or on conventions and demos) it's socially more acceptable.

Bye, Ming-Hua

 

[John Long]

Einion, thank you for posting that link. I dug around in the "Sculpting" forum for 45 minutes before I just gave up. I see now that it was in the "General" forum. It's an excellent thread and perhaps this one or that old one could be put in FAQ or sticky, Moderators?