Judging @ shows

[combatartist]

I was just reading about painting 54mm eyeballs in the painting section, and it made me think/ask;"how do judges go about looking at things so small? Do they wear Opti-visors?" being one of poor eyesight (+14), I need the #10 lens to do 54mm's. The ambient lighting seems pretty bad at the Chicago show, so I would like to know how they "look" at details. I would imagine that judging is subjective, but is there a quasi set of standards used?

Thanks! Tony

 

[Jim Patrick]

Wondered about this one myself Tony. Most shows, Chicago included, have lighting that is no where near what we use to paint with. I was an alternate judge at Chicago once (a rewarding experience I reccomend all figurist do at least once) and I have to admit, I did not see anything other than the human eye being used to judge the figures. My opinion was that the eyes, while looked at, were judged in relation to the overall painting done on a certian figure.

Just my 2 cents...

Jim Patrick

 

[Anders Heintz]

Yes, we absolutely look at details and score accordingly. In my experience, if the figure does not have eye's painted it will not do as well as a figure that does. I don't understand the philosophy that a figure should not have eyes painted, of course the eyes should be painted and if they are not painted well it will more then likely not do well at a show.

As for opti visors etc, I don't need to use a set to see all the details etc, but I have seen others use them.

If you'd like to read more about the open system of judging go to www.mmsichicago.com and click on the link that says open system or something like that and you can read all the aspects of the system.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

I am of the opinion that the judges should not have flashlight or magnifiers of any kind. Miniatures are supposed to be viewd without these items.

Glasses and lenses from an optician for correction is ok.

Cheers
Janne Nilsson

 

[Jim]

In any scale, I paint the eyes - whether or not the figure is going to be displayed at a show or not - it's a personal challenge to me to attempt to get them right.

One of the many reasons I left IPMS was the use of 'death rays' (penlights) and dental mirrors to see the undersides of vehicles of all sorts. That sort of extreme 'rivet counting' and *n*l-retentiveness is just beyond me.

Since most figures can be held by their base and brought up 'close and personal' to a judge's eyes, I don't see the need for anything else. If an optivisor or other magnification devices are used by judges - aren't we heading down that terribly slippery slope to becoming another IPMS?

The 'Open System' is the best method of rewarding good work at all levels.

My $.02 (USD).

 

[Ernest]

I am of the opinion that the judges should not have flashlight or magnifiers of any kind. Miniatures are supposed to be viewd without these items.

Glasses and lenses from an optician for correction is ok.

Cheers
Janne Nilsson

+1
A judge has to be very professional to evaluate a figure with the naked eye, I see here some judges using extreme lights over the figure and zoom lens like the dentist use. they want to see the eyelash of a 54 mm figure, absurd!

 

[John Long]

I think judging a figure is best done when the figure is taken as a whole. It's not about subtracting points for asymmetrical pupils, or too much red in the cheeks. If the eyes are done well, it will contribute to a good face. If the face is done well, it will contribute to the rest of the figure looking good. If something is wrong, or not well done, it takes away from the overall effect, and the figure doesn't score as high.

I just came from an IPMS show and judged in that way for the first time. It was a little bizarre to me. Yes, the flashlights were out, yes points were deducted for flaws found using them. Give me the "Open System" every time.

 

[Anders Heintz]

Well put John.

I didn't mean to come across in a way that the eyes are the only thing that matters, as obviously that's not the case. Everything is taken into conciderarion. But with that said, you'd be hard pressed to find a gold medal quality figure without a set of well painted eyes. Or in the same category a napoleonic figure with sloppy painted lace would not do as well as one with perfectly painted lace.

As for flash lights and mirrors etc I have never seen those used by judges at any figure show here in the US.

 

[tonydawe]

I can't speak for other shows, but I've been involved with judging at WASMEx for many years, and we've never seen the need, nor wanted, to use optivisors/ magnifiers, pen lights and mirrors.

In my humble opinion, judging should be done with the naked eye, however I accept that some people feel its essentialto examine every possible detail to the Nth degree, and that's their prerogative. For me the important thing is how all those tiny details combine together to create the finished figure. This is what I'm looking at when I judge figures.

Personally, I don't take judging or myself so seriously that I would bother with using optivisors or magnifying glasses to judge. If I can't see well enough with my own eyes, then I probably should give the judging game away.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

Additionally, when I used to be headjudge for IPMS-Open I always stressed the point that you should not only deduct points for flaws that you found but also add points for things that where of extra quality. In short terms, what makes this a god model/figure.

Also I introduced a "Trainee-system". Anyone who liked could join a team of judges and see how it was done and how they reasoned. This gave modellers more understanding of the judging, it helped them evolve as modellers themselved and preparedand taught them to be judges themselves. Not that all of them where suited nor guaranteed to judge. The complaints almost disapeared.

In the two big shows here in Sweden. The headjudge and two other experienced judges go through the awards to see if it looks right. And usually one to three classes are rejudged because they think the awards looks strange. Judges can do mistakes, even experienced ones. i have done it myself. Sometimes you can correct them but most of the times you can only learn from them.

Cheers
Janne Nilsson

 

[HiroshiAirborne]

I've judged a couple times and I've always looked at the figure as a whole. For me it's about balance, a figure with exquisite painting of the body but a so-so build will be about equal as a figure that was heavily modified and looks beautiful but a so-so paint job. It's about the work put into figure.

 

[brian]

Judging should be done with the human eye or with reading glasses if needed, full stop.
Brian

 

[combatartist]

Thank you all for your input! I finally read the MMSCI Rules, and I think it all makes sense now. Paint the eyes sounds like the way to go, if I can I will.

 

[renarts]

This brings up a good point. Its important to have the figure secured well to the base. In a case where lighting is horrible like in Atlanta. It would be nice to be able to have judges move a figure from the wall area to the center tables or under a light where it was more suitable for a fair judging.

 

[combatartist]

Additionally, when I used to be headjudge for IPMS-Open I always stressed the point that you should not only deduct points for flaws that you found but also add points for things that where of extra quality. In short terms, what makes this a god model/figure.

Also I introduced a "Trainee-system". Anyone who liked could join a team of judges and see how it was done and how they reasoned. This gave modellers more understanding of the judging, it helped them evolve as modellers themselved and preparedand taught them to be judges themselves. Not that all of them where suited nor guaranteed to judge. The complaints almost disapeared.

In the two big shows here in Sweden. The headjudge and two other experienceJd judges go through the awards to see if it looks right. And usually one to three classes are rejudged because they think the awards looks strange. Judges can do mistakes, even experienced ones. i have done it myself. Sometimes you can correct them but most of the times you can only learn from them.

Cheers
Janne Nilsson

Very good Idea! My sight will never get me into the judges arena, and I'm good with that, and I posed my question more along the lines of some of the extraordinary detail I see which,and because my eyes are bad, wonder if they (judges) look that closely. Does A squinting figures eyes at 54mm need eyelashes? If so, I'm doomed!

Thank you all for weighing in on this and it seems that the Open System seems to be the favorite.

Tony S