List of oil paints

[Odi.et.amo]

Hi guys,
I'm just starting with oil paints for my miniatures and I cannot wait to try them out. Thing is I'm not sure how many paint I should buy. I made a list of tones which could be helpful at the beginning so If you won't mind I'll post it here so you can tell me if it's too much. I will be buying Umton paints (Czech brand, master artist paints) and I'm gonna transfer to other brand when I get used to them (possibly Talens Rembrandt, WN Artists are not available here)
I've read some of the beginners posts on planet figure. Other thing is mixing the paints. I know the basic color theory but I'm kinda lost with all those earth tones (ochres, siennas, umbers). Is anywhere out there a book or something that could help me?
Thank you for your replies!

List of tone I want to buy
Titanium White
Cadmium Yellow Medium
Naples Yellow Light
Cadmium Red Medium
Ultramarine Red (violet tone)
Cobalt Blue Deep
Ultramarine Deep
English Red
Payne's Grey
Yellow Ochre
Gold Ochre
Burtn Umber
Raw Umber
Burnt Sienna
VanDycke's Brown
Ivory Black

 

[alamac]

Ivo
I found a booklet several years ago which I find handy, it's called The oil painters pocket palette by Rosalind Cuthbert , hope this helps
Cheers
Alan

 

[Gary D]

Ivo, I bought 2 of William Powells books and find them excellent for helping me with different mixes. I first got the Color Mixing Recipies for Oils and Acrylics and then got the one for portraits. The first has 450 different mixes and both are very easy to understand. I think I paid $13 at Michaels Crafts store for the first and about $20 for the portrait one from Amazon.

http://www.williampowell-artist.com/books.html

Good luck!

Gary

 

[Odi.et.amo]

That's totally awesome, thank you so much guys!! I found the W. Powell's book (mixing oils and acrylics) in one of the Czech e-shop so I'll be ordering ASAP. Also due to this I'm going to reduce the list I posted to more basic set up and buy other paints as I go through painting (and this book) Thank you again!

 

[Odi.et.amo]

So my new list is:

Titanium White
Cadmium Red medium
Cadmium Yellow Medium
Naples Yellow light
English Red (or Indian red not decided yet)
Cobalt Blue deep
Yellow Ochre
Burnt Umber
Payne's Grey
Ivory Black

 

[Gary D]

You may want to look at Burnt Sienna. Alot of figure painters use it with Titanium White and Yellow or Gold Ochre as a flesh base.

Gary

 

[Odi.et.amo]

Whoa, totally forgot Burnt Sienna! Got it. Too bad I really have to wait until holidays are over. I just can't justify buying so much stuff before right before Christmas (and my birthday on 18th) cause I'm also buying new brushes, thinner etc. Basically starting anew.

 

[Einion]

Ahoj Ivo, hadn't heard of Umton previous so thanks for that. Some of the range is actually available here in Ireland and they're very reasonably priced as far as oil paints go so I might pick some up to try them out.

So my new list is:

Titanium White
Cadmium Red medium
Cadmium Yellow Medium
Naples Yellow light
English Red (or Indian red not decided yet)
Cobalt Blue deep
Yellow Ochre
Burnt Umber
Payne's Grey
Ivory Black

Your original list contained a few things I would have suggested discarding as they sort of covered the same ground as others, and this is a more manageable palette size to begin with - remembering that the more colours you have the more colour interactions you need to learn.

This is a very good starter palette. Most of the colours you've listed here are excellent choices and could continue being on your palette forever. Yellow Ochre and Burnt Umber are probably the two most useful earths overall and I would usually recommend them, and I'm fond of something similar to English Red as well.

Cobalt Blue Deep is usually a beautiful colour but it's not too dissimilar to French Ultramarine, which should be very much cheaper (as much a four or five times less).
Payne's Grey is usually a simple mix of French Ultramarine and black in case you want to save the money for something that can be mixed so easily on the palette.

Ivory Black (Bone Black) is fine but it's the weakest and most transparent of the common black pigments. Mars Black might be a better choice for this kind of painting as it's more opaque and leaner.

Naples Yellow Light isn't a colour I'd suggest is necessary since the same territory is covered by other things on your palette. If it's cheap though it might be a useful convenience colour, but I'd recommend not getting the light version as often this is the normal one just with white added! Better to get Naples Yellow and add white if and when needed than have a colour you can't subtract white from.

Whoa, totally forgot Burnt Sienna!

I wouldn't worry too much about that, like many colours it is not a must-have.

Many figure painters don't use this colour for fleshtones, preferring instead a basic mix beginning from white, a yellow (or a yellow earth) and a red (or red earth, but commonly one of the opaque ones). Something like English Red is probably more useful overall since you can simulate transparency but opacity has to be there from the start.

Einion

 

[Odi.et.amo]

Thank you Einion for your advices it's really helpful and I appreciate it.
The reason why I choose Umton brand is for their availability and for their price. From what I've heard they may not be the best, but they are good for starting out (as few of folks on Czech forum stated). When I get use to oil paints I may transfer to better paint brands and I take it as some kind of reward, same for my brushes (I'm gonna get Kolibri serier 333 as a starter). When I feel I'm confident enough I will switch to Rembrandt paint. Only problem is I can't find those smaller tubes (15ml I believe) in any Czech shop so 40ml are way to go, just wish to have the smaller ones (cheaper). Anyway they will last for many years so it's a good investment. I'm also on a hunt for good minis to begin with. On CZ forum one guy suggested to go with Latorre(I especially like the WWI pilot) or Enigma, I'm just not sure if it's not too good option for my skill since I am a beginner. If anyone has some ideas about good minis that are more widely available please tell me.

 

[Odi.et.amo]

I forgot to mention about the blue tone. Umton range is lacking French Ultramarine Blue, at least the name. I found a tone called Ultramarine Deep which i put into the first list. I think this color will do.

 

[Odi.et.amo]

Guys there is one thing that bothers me about painting with oil. There's a great step-by-step guide on CZ forum by Milan Dufek. He describes underpainting at one point, saying you don't have to thin down oil paints on an acrylic undercoat. I have no problem with this, however my question is: If i want to use less contrast on given part of the mini and paint highlights and shadows on already basecoated area, logic tells me that basecoat layer is put on there unthinned, but highlights and shadows requiers thinning so that current layer is not too thick. Is this correct? (I really hope I didn't screw up the description, my English is horrible at this point) I apologize for such stupid question, but I don't want to find out the hard way

 

[Einion]

Thank you Einion for your advices it's really helpful and I appreciate it.

Welcome.

About Umton and quality, many modellers who paint in oils regularly don't use big-name brands for all their colours - some don't us any - so just because a brand isn't in the front rank of quality doesn't mean it may not work well. The Umpton paint may actually be very good

Talens Rembrandt is quite good but it may not be the best brand to aspire to. I'm not sure if you have limited choices locally and this is the best paint you can get but assuming you could choose from more than one other brand I would recommend you wait until you have a good appreciation of the Umpton and then maybe you can ask for recommendations based on qualities you then know about.

Oil paints are a good investment usually as you say - they should last many years in the tube, if you're lucky you could still be using one or two of them in a decade or more.

I'm also on a hunt for good minis to begin with. On CZ forum one guy suggested to go with Latorre(I especially like the WWI pilot) or Enigma, I'm just not sure if it's not too good option for my skill since I am a beginner. If anyone has some ideas about good minis that are more widely available please tell me.

A lot of us agree that the thing to aim for is a model than you really like. You'll tend to do your best work on something you're really enthusiastic about.

If you'd like specific recommendations on good starter figures to practice on I would start a thread asking about this in General Figure Talk, I'm sure you'll get a lot of input.

I forgot to mention about the blue tone. Umton range is lacking French Ultramarine Blue, at least the name. I found a tone called Ultramarine Deep which i put into the first list. I think this color will do.

Yes, French Ultramarine is just the generic term or family name for the pigment (pigment blue 29 or PB29) which is the synthetic version of real Ultramarine, made from lapis lazuli.

Guys there is one thing that bothers me about painting with oil. There's a great step-by-step guide on CZ forum by Milan Dufek. He describes underpainting at one point, saying you don't have to thin down oil paints on an acrylic undercoat. I have no problem with this, however my question is: If i want to use less contrast on given part of the mini and paint highlights and shadows on already basecoated area, logic tells me that basecoat layer is put on there unthinned, but highlights and shadows requiers thinning so that current layer is not too thick. Is this correct?

There are a few ways you can do this in oils. If you're using the usual highlight and shadow colours you can simply apply a little less of the paint - small amounts, so that when you then blend them in (working into wet paint or wet-on-dry) there is less of a colouring effect even though the paints used were originally quite light or dark. You could in theory even use white and black for this, as long as there isn't too much of either you could still end up with subtle shading.

Another way is to use highlight and shadow mixtures that are less light and less dark, so even if applied full strength the colours would still not be overly contrasting.

Thinning oil paint can be tricky and some people say not to do this, always to use paint at full strength, but I would recommend you do experiment with diluting in various ways because it is necessary for certain effects and it can greatly help in smoothing out what is sometimes a very paste-like paint! This doesn't mean the paint is thin like a wash (you can dilute heavily like this if/when necessary) it can mean just a tiny addition of turps/spirits, or medium, to help the paint apply more easily or smooth out more easily.

(I really hope I didn't screw up the description, my English is horrible at this point)

Not in the least, your English is really quite good I assure you!

Einion

 

[Odi.et.amo]

For what I heard about the Umton brand and also judging from one of the Czech series of painting videos on YouTube, where were Umton paints used to imitate wood on and airplane model, their/one of their main cons is high concentration of conservtional oil in them. This however is not threatening my attitude towards them (or oil paints in general) at all. In fact after my research I put my faith towards Umton as good starting point for my painting adventure (and very enriching and self-rewarding adventure indeed). Switching to another brand is topic for distant future (matter of years and gained experience). Availability is kind of a proble in Czech republic. Some things are present in lot of places, other things (and most needed ones) are a miracle to find. As I said (did I say it? Winsor Newton Artist series which are recommended by lot of members of Planet Figure are nowhere to be found. on the other hand I saw Winton series in several shops here. Same for miniatures.

Thank you for tips about the paints. I´m planning on painting on some cheap practicing figures (those snapfits from Games Workshop for example) and trying out different tecniques and your advices are very heplful. One guy on CZ forum was told by to use lot of contrast on 28mm miniatures but I wish to try everything I can so that I have a picture of working with oil paints.

Wow this is actually quiet long post! I apologize but I just couldn´t help myself

You may say my English is good but say that again when we meet in person

 

[Odi.et.amo]

Now this is a noobish question from hell!

When I buy the French Ultramarine (PB29) which is rather darker blue tone as the only primary blue for my starting palette of colors, I am worried a little about making it lighter and darker. Since I know that these primary colors can be darkened with a touch of its complementary color, what about lightening it? I can add green but this makes it more of a turquoise tone which is tertiary but is it a real highlight? Adding white seem to desaturate(is that right term?) the color. It seem logic to add white as well as adding much lighter blue tone (it's primary color) but i won't have this at my disposal for the first time (that's why I put Cobalt Blue deep). I know I'm pissing you all off, but I just can't help myself. I'm going to order those books from William F. Powell but that is too distant future from here (i know it's just after New Year but...well, not able to answer that) Thank you for patience!

 

[Odi.et.amo]

Just want to wish you guys merry Christmas, may all your wishes come true and that you may be with your loved ones. Take care folks!

 

[jcichon]

You can never go wrong with to many paint tubes!! If you can EVER find it, Bob Knee's Color theory book is really good and it covers oils. I have never been able to find it as it is long out of production.

 

[callum]

Hi Ivo,

I would suggest you obtain a copy of the book by Michael Wilcox called Blue and Yellow don't make Green as well as his book on selecting colours.

Regards, Callum.

 

[megroot]

Ivo,
I get a copy two weeks ago of Bob Knee's color theory. It wasn't cheap but i can handle some more then before i had it.
To highlight Blue I always use Cerulean blue and a touch of white. My first highlight of french Ultramarine is a mix with Cerulean blue and french ultramarine.
Darken the blue use a orange. I mix it myself from red and yellow.
For the very deep shades ad a black.

marc

 

[Einion]

When I buy the French Ultramarine (PB29) which is rather darker blue tone as the only primary blue for my starting palette of colors, I am worried a little about making it lighter and darker. Since I know that these primary colors can be darkened with a touch of its complementary color, what about lightening it?

Adding white is often the first thing to try; most painters use more white than any other colour for good reason

I should mention, using complements isn't necessarily the best way to mix shadows - mixing complements make colours both darker and duller, which is often exactly what you want when depicting shadows, but it's not a perfect solution for a couple of reasons, #1 of them being what to use as the mixing complement.

With any colours that are already very dark, I would recommend trying black first and only look for an alternative if you don't get the kind of colour you were looking for.

I can add green but this makes it more of a turquoise tone which is tertiary but is it a real highlight?

I wouldn't worry about primary, secondary and tertiary colours; these terms don't really help in mixing - virtually all colours are tertiary colours technically, there's no benefit in knowing this.

Adding white seem to desaturate(is that right term?) the color.

Yes, that's the right term; you can also say it lowers chroma which basically describes the same thing.

Without a larger palette to rely on there are two main things you can do. The first is to learn to accept these kinds of duller colours - often highlights on cloth are quite dull anyway.

If you want or need the highlights to be more vivid though the thing to try to combat the problem is glazing: appling the base colour thinly over the highlights will increase the saturation/raise the chroma. When you do this you would initially want to paint the highlights lighter than intended obviously, since the glaze will make them darker.

It seem logic to add white as well as adding much lighter blue tone (it's primary color) but i won't have this at my disposal for the first time (that's why I put Cobalt Blue deep). I know I'm pissing you all off, but I just can't help myself.

These kinds of issues aren't at all obvious, don't worry about it. I can assure you, many people struggle with this sort of thing for many years, not just when first starting out!

You can never go wrong with to many paint tubes!!

Yeah you can. The more paints you have the more interactions you have to learn; using too many colours, especially when starting out, can directly hold the learner back. A simple example would be if you have a bright orange paint you may never need to try to mix that kind of colour, so you don't learn how or whether your palette can (sometimes it will, sometimes it won't).

If you can EVER find it, Bob Knee's Color theory book is really good and it covers oils. I have never been able to find it as it is long out of production.

I think any value to be had from Bob Knee's book is if you want to paint like Bob Knee. If you don't then you're not missing much - there are a great many better places to learn about colour theory and application today, including some of the online sources which are mostly free.

Einion

 

[Odi.et.amo]

Sooooo, I'll get the paints in the beginning of next week. But I must admit I screwed up a little bit:lol: I've ordered Cadmium red medium from Umton, but the fact is it not the right color, infact it's bit oragnde. Big thumbs down for me I guess I'll have to buy deep version of this color to get "medium" tone. For shame Ivo for shame