Minamoto no Yoshitsune_源 義経

[Stanislav]

Dear karlw (sorry i don't know your real name)!

To begin, I am very grateful to you for your critical review and for the useful link, I will definitely use this site as soon as the need arises.
However, it seems to me that you are too emotional in the matter of historicity. Understand me correctly, I know something about history, but I cannot know everything, but it takes a lot of time to find out more.

But you still need to spend a lot of time painting, if only because it is my job.

In this case, I tried to use Japanese patterns (non-European, Celtic, or Arabic)! Perhaps this is not enough, and it would be necessary to find exactly what this character was wearing, but who will say for sure that there could not be such a coloring?

Pay attention to this picture: I am not sure that this is Minamoto, but I thought that his armor and equipment were very similar and therefore borrowed the ornament! I do not think this is a problem!

Now, regarding the horse, which could not be such at that time, but rather should have looked like a big pony! I tend to agree with you, I know that, for example, in medieval Russia(Kievskaya Rus) there were very short horses, perhaps the situation was similar in Japan. But on the other hand why do the Japanese themselves set monuments to their hero Minamoto riding a big horse?

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[Cannonball]

Fantastic painting ( irrespective of any potential historical inaccuracies).

Neal

 

[JGREEN]

Outstanding work Stanislav! Even the groundwork is excellent!

Jason

 

[Wayneb]

I really don't care anything other than what I see. And that piece to me is just an amazing example of patience and painting talent brought together on a well sculpted and presented piece of art...…..Very impressive.

Wayne

 

[Attica Miniatures]

Hi Karlw

I know Stanislav as an artist who always conducts historical researches in a responsible manner, so I have no doubt that he did his best to find references for this work, especially considering that most of Japan-related sources are available in Japanese or English languages, not Russian.

In my opinion, sculptors, manufacturers and artists provide the collectors with pieces based on history. If you are looking for an absolutely 100% historically accurate figure which embodies someone who lived almost a thousand years ago, you'd better hire several specialists who got Ph.D. in History. They would be discussing every piece of his apparel and armor for weeks, never come to an agreement. Maybe you'll produce a very historical accurate figure this way, but you'll never return the investments and most of collectors won't consider how long you have been working on it and choose something shinier.

Tatiana

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[Chrisr]

Absolutely beautifully painted and a stunning piece of work. Well done indeed.

 

[harrytheheid]

While everyone is entitled to their own opinions on whatever, there are acceptable ways to express them in accordance with the spirit of this forum.
That is one gorgeously painted figure....in my personal opinion.

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[Stanislav]

Many thanks friends for the kind words of support!)

 

[karlw]

Hello Stanislav,
Let me add a final comment

Sculpting and Painting Japanese historical figures is probably one of the most difficult tasks in this hobby field, given the complexities of regulations in the feudal Japanese society.

in my opinion Japanese colors used are very different from those in Europe ! They are very muted and toned down. Please have alook at this site for further detailed info on Japanese colours:

http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/garb/garb.html
I also recommend to check out this poster about armour lacing patterns:

https://www.cafepress.com/sengokudaimyo/922758

I would be very careful in using woodblock paintings as a sole reference source,they are not very reliable and a fantasy about a world the painters themselves where not very familiar with either .

In my opinion using museum exhibition catalogues and asian auction catalogues, especially those from Sotheby'sbisca very good option

I'm a Japanese history enthusiast since the mid 90s, my Samurai movie collection alone amounts to 500 + feature fims, many many source books and auction catalogues ,in addition to original armour and loads of custom Samurai figures. As a collector I can claim to have a very trained eye for the subject matter at hand.

My comments here serve one main purpose: to improve the quality in this very specialised section of our hobby, Inhave provided links etc as has member Yellowcat

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[Stanislav]

Hello karlw!

I have no doubt in your competence, but you should have been less categorical!

From your words, if I am not an expert in any historical field, I should not undertake work with this historical object. Well, for example, I understand the Crusades, and nothing more! Following your logic, I should only paint the crusaders, the Templars, the Hospitallers and the Saracens! And nothing more! In any case, until I accumulate enough knowledge on any other period, for example, the Viking era! Excuse me, but for now I will study all this, who will support me and my family, maybe you? I am already silent about the fact that the Crusaders are very interesting, but the general history is very multifaceted and there are a huge number of eras, races, and other things. And why should I limit my creativity if I don’t know at the moment what kind of fabric the samurai had in the 11th century! Today I do not know this, and if I do not undertake this work, I may never know. And thanks to the work done, albeit with historical inaccuracies, thanks to your prompts, including, another time I will do more historically reliable work!

And I am primarily an artist, and secondly a researcher of the historical component! For me, the main goal is to create interesting good works, and it seems to me that at the moment I’m doing worse than I would like, and of course I will direct the main efforts and time to improving my artistic skills, rather than a meticulous study of medieval fabrics, fasteners helmets, shoe shapes and more!

I am sure that this discussion will not change anything... Each of us will stay his own opinion, so I propose to finish!
Best regards, Stas!

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[akaryu]

A member presents his work for all to see and possibly enjoy.

Fellow members react positively to what by all means is an attractive and well painted piece of miniature work, nothing more.

There are other members knowledgeable in Japanese history and customs on this forum without bragging about it, myself included. We know that most representations of Japanese subjects tend to be rather garish in sharp contrast to the original, but here the positive comments were about the painting, which I wouldn't qualify as ' an aggressive painterly way'!

You may have ' a very trained eye' on these matters.. Might I suggest you try again and perhaps show us some of your work?

Cheers,
Pierre

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[Alex]

Well said Stan !

We are as I am sure all realise we do not have a lot of original clothing remaining from early medieval Japan. Same thing for Europe. Most of what we have is so degraded with faded colors that we have no clue how those fabrics were looking at that time.

Alex

 

[harrytheheid]

A member presents his work for all to see and possibly enjoy.

Fellow members react positively to what by all means is an attractive and well painted piece of miniature work, nothing more.

There are other members knowledgeable in Japanese history and customs on this forum without bragging about it, myself included. We know that most representations of Japanese subjects tend to be rather garish in sharp contrast to the original, but here the positive comments were about the painting, which I wouldn't qualify as ' an aggressive painterly way'! You may have ' a very trained eye' on these matters..Might I suggest you try again and perhaps show us some of your work?

Cheers,
Pierre

Well said Stan !

We are I am sure realise we do not have a lot of original clothing remaining from early medieval Japan. Same thing for Europe. Most of what we have is so degraded with faded colors that we have no clue how those fabrics were looking at that time.

Hear, hear.
Wish to Gawd I could paint even 10% as well as this figure has been done!

H

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[karlw]

Here are two more suggestions for the interested samurai painters:

1. An excellent Japanese page about Japanes colors and their combination, if used (in English): http://www.color-guide.com/e_index.shtml
2. Vol.3 (out of 20, 1993 - 94) of the series Kyoto Shoin's Art Library of Japanese Textiles by Nobuko Maruyama, 96 pg..Should sell anywhere between $ 30 and $ 50.

The title of the above mentioned Vol.3 is: Clothes of Samurai Warriors" 1994


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[Babelfish]

Obviously you have totally overlooked that I'm constructive in all my comments with the intention of improving the way Samurai figures are presented painterly.

Yes, your comments are much more constructive now that either you (or perhaps a moderator) has judiciously edited your posts higher up to remove the high-handedness and the insults (calling people "ignorant" etc.)

- Steve

 

[Martin64]

Here are two more suggestions for the interested samurai painters:
1. An excellent Japanese page about Japanes colors and their combination, if used (in English): http://www.color-guide.com/e_index.shtml
2. Vol.3 (out of 20, 1993 - 94) of the series Kyoto Shoin's Art Library of Japanese Textiles by Nobuko Maruyama, 96 pg..Should sell anywhere between $ 30 and $ 50.

Why pictures how Minamoto no Yoshitsune really looked according to your references (if you can) and if you are the expert you state to be open a thread and show at least one figure painted by yourself in the correct way a samurai has to be painted.

Cheers, Martin

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[Nap]

Yes, your comments are much more constructive now that either you (or perhaps a moderator) has judiciously edited your posts higher up to remove the high-handedness and the insults (calling people "ignorant" etc.)

- Steve

Hi Steve and everyone

I have moderated a lot of threads here ( adding POST MODERATED )and sent PMs to all concerned including karlw

This is a wonderful piece of painting and the artist is to be admired for the talent he shows

Nap

 

[Martin64]

As I stated in one of my earlier posts I'm a collector and not a painter

- but you tell others how to paint in a way that would not be accepted even if you would have won all Best of Show Awards since the last decade.
The sheer quality of the paintwork of Stanislav was more than enough to draw attention to this thread - your contribution is next to zero and embarassing. If you have a hard time to understand that I am willing to help you out via PM.

 

[Tecumsea]

Well done Nap-I didn't see the original posts only a text from a friend saying "Have you seen this"-"The guy should be removed from the forum". Clearly the posts did nothing to dignify the forum or the premise on which this forum exists.

Full marks to Stanilav who is a remarkably talented painter and highly respected member of PF but also very dignified in his responses. By any standards this is a lovely piece of work and I am sure any serious collector would be proud to have it in their display cabinet.

As for our critical friend I will be at the World Expo in Eindhoven next July and look forward to marvelling not only at his painting talents on display in the Japanese section but also learning from the accuracy of his work. Clearly this will be worth seeing.

Keith

 

[Nap]

Hi Keith

Yes I acted as I saw best by removing content etc as you rightly say posts and some comments did nothing to dignify PF and totally out of PF guidelines

I have issued a warning to the new member so all are aware

Let's hope the Stanilav's work is at WE for all to marvel at

Happy benchtime one and all