Mixing Magicsculpt and Duro

[Dan Morton]

Several posts have recommended mixing Magicsculpt and Duro to achieve more flex, hold detail better, etc. I finally tried it this weekend and I like it. Except for one problem, the mixture seemed to harden quicker than either Magicsculpt or Duro by itself. The mix I used was simple 1:1:1:1. Equal parts of resin and hardener of each type. Obviously the next try I'll cut back on the hardeners slightly to slow the setting time.

BUT - Here's my question. What mixture(s) do you find work best? Do you use different mixes for different things - faces = mix A; equipment = mix B, etc.? Also does anyone actually measure the quantities or is everyone 'eyeballing'?

Since the devil is usually in 'em, the more detail the better! Thanks!

All the best,
Dan

 

[Roy]

Hi Dan...when you mention your mix started to cure quicker than normal...was it just down to the additional time it took to mix the duro with the Magic Sculp?...I don't use Duro much...but if you are gonna mix the two...make sure the MS and duro components are mixed individually first, ie: mix the MS resin + hardener...then mix the Duro resin + hardener...before you combine the two..also make sure your duro is soft before mixing, you'll be able to mix quicker and save a little time here.
Also, I would generally use Magic Sculp for everything, unless it absolutely has to retain some flexibility...and I've never had a case of Magic Sculp not being able to hold any detail that I needed to apply...I think it really boils down to what suits the way you work...even if it's the colour change that helps you discern detail better..that's a good reason on it's own to have a mix...we all need to see what we're doing...and I know there are some modellers that don't use MS because it is too light in colour..it depends what you're used to and what you like to use...
To get Magic Sculp a little softer to use on it's own which is great for easing the application of drapery....you could try taking a little of the resin and kneading 'till it's real soft...then do the same with the hardener...it's important to get the hardener really soft and without any tiny streaks before you bring the two together and mix really well..you might be surprised how a very soft mix can effect your work....mind you...you might not like it...but maybe it's worth a try.

All the best.

Roy.

 

[Dan Morton]

Many thanks, Roy! Great suggestions and I'll try 'em all. You're right - one of the other reasons I didn't mention is 'seeing' the details better in green vs. grey.

All the best,
Dan

 

[Einion]

Originally posted by Dan Morton+Aug 24 2005, 11:49 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Dan Morton @ Aug 24 2005, 11:49 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>...the mixture seemed to harden quicker...[/b]

I haven't found this myself Dan, if anything it should give you slightly more working time than straight MagicSculp because Kneadatite/Duro cures slower at the ratio I mix it. I do tend to get slightly longer working periods than the norm with most putties though, judging from the times people quote.

The time necessary to blend the two together shouldn't eat significantly into your working time - it should take a couple of minutes max. If it helps I find making a 'blanket' from the Kneadatite and wrapping this around the ball of MS the best way to mix the two, although the standard roll-and-fold with two sausages will work fine.

To echo something that Roy says above I've found no lack where MS is concerned with regard to holding detail, in actual fact it's a little better than Kneadatite in this respect (less rebound).

Originally posted by Dan Morton@Aug 24 2005, 11:49 AM
Obviously the next try I'll cut back on the hardeners slightly to slow the setting time.

MagicSculp is quite tolerant of variations in proportion (Kneadatite too obviously!) In general I wouldn't cut back more than a fifth on the hardener with MS otherwise it will make the putty noticeably weaker, but if you're blending with Kneadatite it'll offset this quite a bit.

Originally posted by Dan Morton@Aug 24 2005, 11:49 AM
What mixture(s) do you find work best? Do you use different mixes for different things - faces = mix A; equipment = mix B, etc.?

I use straight MS for everything if I can after making a conscious effort to learn to use it this way after I bought it; prior to that I had been using blends of a British putty (Sylmasta) with Kneadatite to give a good enough feel. MS alone is superior in most respects so it saves a lot of effort in the long run; I just love how easy MS is to mix, although the slight translucency of the standard colour is difficult to get used to.

I add in Kneadatite to MS only to alter the working characteristics - to add adhesive strength (during working) or for greater flexibility in thin sheets. I use about a third for the former, from 1:1 to 3:1 for the latter.

Incidentally if a colour change is all you're after you can do this quite easily without going to the trouble of mixing in another putty, adding just a smidge of acrylic paint will do this but just about any paint also works apparently since you're adding in so little.

Originally posted by Dan Morton@Aug 24 2005, 11:49 AM
Also does anyone actually measure the quantities or is everyone 'eyeballing'?

I measure by eyeballing so I guess both really :lol: I usually make small balls of putties to compare amounts (since I use pretty simple ratios) but you can roll sausages and cut off lengths for greater accuracy. You don't have to go to too much trouble to be precise mixing these two since I don't think small proportional variations will make a noticeable difference in handling.


<!--QuoteBegin-Roy@Aug 24 2005, 04:52 PM
...you might be surprised how a very soft mix can effect your work....mind you...you might not like it...but maybe it's worth a try.
[/quote]
Good point Roy. Apoxie Sculpt it actually quite like a very soft, and slightly stickier, version of MS.

Einion

 

[Roy]

Einion...Thank you, some great info on the different putties..I must get me some apoxie sculp and give it a try...sounds useful (stickier & softer)...does it cure without baking?
And as you mention Sylmasta..David Benning should have a useful addition for euro.

Thanks again....and hope you make folkestone again this year.

Roy.

 

[btavis]

Apoxie is what I use pretty much exclusively and some Kneadatite for things that it can do the others cannot. I prefer the white Apoxie and I can suggest you avoid some of the other colors as the consistancy of the putty varies. Black for example is just horrible. Whatever they used to pigment the putty is too watery and it makes mixing the stuff a gooey nightmare.

I have mixed the Kneadatite with Apoxie in no special proportions and have had no problems. Apoxie, A&B, MS all dry somewhat brittle and for very thin pieces they can be broken easily. Adding the Kneadatite provides better strength as it is flexible in thin sheets when cured. Apoxie does not require baking but I always use a crock pot to speed drying time to eliminate down time in sculpting. Apoxie probably smooths out the best of all the putties next to MS. It also has a geat shelve life if stored correctly (cool, dry place).

 

[Dan Morton]

Very helpful info, guys! Thanks so much!

All the best,
Dan

 

[Calvin]

Dan,
in my opinion the (not mixed) Magisculp is the best medium, I hate Duro which is really hard to work for me. Its chewing gum-like texture and property is something which exceed my ability. If you can find it, give a try to the White Milliput, not the Standard or Terracotta, but the White.
The consistency is the same of the mix of MS and Duro, but it can be worked much better, like the MS, with a simple brush and alcool. When set, it comes strong enough and can be easily filled.
Luca

 

[Dan Morton]

Thanks, Luca! Previously I had used only Magicsculpt and just this weekend tried the combination. I think I'm going back to straight Magicsculpt but adding some color. But I am going to take Bob's suggestion and try Apoxie also. He's raved about earlier threads, so I gotta give it a try. Duro has never been my choice, but it has its uses as Einion says, for elasticity and adhesive strength. Different horses for different courses, as my Brit friends used to say.

All the best,
Dan

 

[Einion]

Originally posted by Roy+Aug 24 2005, 11:34 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Roy @ Aug 24 2005, 11:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Einion...Thank you, some great info on the different putties..I must get me some apoxie sculp and give it a try...sounds useful (stickier & softer)...does it cure without baking?[/b]

No probs. Yep Apoxie Sculpt cures without baking, I think a little slower than MS. I forgot to mention too, although it starts softer it ends up harder, which could be very useful as a lot of users feel it carves better.

Originally posted by btavis@Aug 24 2005, 11:46 PM
I prefer the white Apoxie and I can suggest you avoid some of the other colors as the consistancy of the putty varies. Black for example is just horrible. Whatever they used to pigment the putty is too watery and it makes mixing the stuff a gooey nightmare.

Good to know, thanks Bob.

<!--QuoteBegin-Dan Morton@Aug 25 2005, 11:01 AM
Duro has never been my choice, but it has its uses as Einion says, for elasticity and adhesive strength. Different horses for different courses, as my Brit friends used to say.[/quote]
I think this is the best approach in the hobby - use what you like for its inherent strengths (same with painting, where I think a multi-media approach is the most flexible).

Einion

 

[MinasTirithGuard]

While Aves Apoxie Sculpt is decently carvable, it is not so with Aves Apoxie Clay. Though both go on smooth and I find them easy to work with while wet, I prefer A+B putty for carving. However I consider both Aves products above Magic Sculpt.

Apoxie Clay and Duro form a very solid mass which is excellent for sharp edges and flat surfaces. I used this mixture when sculpting the Master Chief from Halo 2. (A cyborg-like heavily armored character)