New Movie this Fall -NAPOLEON

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Well, that was a strange film-going experience.....I didn't know there were trenches with Agincourt style stakes at Waterloo.(The officer shouting,"Right,lads, over the top!" just about iced that cake) There are a few sequences throughout the 2 1/2 hours that are well handled , the forming of square by British infantry being one.
To be fair, trying to encompass a whole life and career in two and a half hours is pretty impossible.....it necessarily means serious editing of events. But...quite a lot was fanciful, and at that point, I'll leave it.

Alan
 
Following this thread with much interest. I think we're all in agreement that this film is historically "trash"; the main point of contention appears to be; "is a film just entertainment or should it be educational too"; I cannot see why we can't have both. I don't expect everything to be right! but I do expect some integrity on the film maker's part.

I will not pay good money to see Napoleon based simply on the trailers, clips I've seen so far and Sir Scott's own comments (and Dan Snow, you should be ashamed of yourself), They are enough to convince me that I would be more annoyed than enthralled with the experience. I don't think the much talked about Kubrick non-film would have been as bad and I am looking forward to the proposed Spielberg series more. (think Band of Brothers - Shindler's List and Lincoln).

There is a long history of old but entertaining films like Erroll Flynn used to make, which I still enjoy, but they were made for a much less demanding audience, largely in the 40's/50's who wanted escape from rateher than the reality of war which was still fresh in their memories, having just been through the real thing.

The thing is - things have moved on. There has been an ever increasing trend towards realism ever since. I like the more recent Alamo film - it's more authentic, and a bit too dry for it, but at least it tries; but then I also like the John Wayne film, which is a load of old tosh, but exiting, colorful and fun. Either way, both of those films still give you a reasonable impression of what happened, why it happened and who was involved. Even with the things it still got wrong, the recent Outlaw King, to a great extent, went some way to redress the myriad of gaffs made in Braveheart.
The issue for me is that Ridley Scott by making this film as he has, has displayed the blatant distain for truth and history which is now becoming ever more common in today's society and that he will be helping lose any ground that has been gained in recent years.
Remember, kids today are constantly being indoctrinated into false history - *the original people of Britain who built Stonehenge were black" - "The British Empire was evil incarnate, carrying out Genocide on millions of indigenous people it colonized - (I actually heard that on ITV's Good Morning TV) . Unless we tell them, movie goers today will believe the rubbish fed to them in films like The Woman King which tried to make heroes (can't say Heroine any more) out of a Slave capturing and trading nation.

I've watched a lot of reviews since Napoleon came out, made by both by amateur "reactors" on YouTube, and by professional critics alike. I've heard phrases like "Napoleon is portrayed as a "petulant child" and "Josephine was the driving force behind his success", which seem to reinforce Scott's opinions and vision as well as the stereotypical and outdated Napoleon complex propaganda myth rather than any reality.

I have also seen young YouTubers complaining that the narrative of the film was too jumpy - going from one thing to another without any explanation or exposition as to what happened in-between each jump in the timeline- they couldn't follow any cohesive, sequential thread without having had any prior knowledge. I've also heard from established historians (not Dan Snow;)) that the Italian campaigns, anything about Egypt, (apart from blowing bits off a Pyramid), Leipzig and the 1814 campaign, to name but a few, are not even mentioned. Laziness or cherry picking? I don't know

You might say "well this will encourage viewers of the film to read more". I think this is being too optimistic. The vast majority of cinema goers who have no prior knowledge of the subject will only see it as entertainment and ultimately be just left with a false and superficial image of Napoleon, his motivations and achievements impressed onto them, that old duffers like me will have a hard job getting out of their minds for decades to come. Once you see or hear something, it is very hard to get it out of your head.
Seeing Napoleon (who was a notoriously bad horseman), waving a sabre and leading a badly choreographed charge is no less stupid to me than if we got a Churchill Bio-pic showing him leading a charge up Sword beach brandishing a Sten-gun.

Surely we can aspire to having more accurate films even if we don't expect to see them.

Just my perspective,
David
 
Well I went last night, I would say leave reality at the door sit down and enjoy it for what it is. The action is good I would say. I think when the uncut version comes out ((which it will) it will fill the story out more. I’m not a napoleonic buff but know enough to say quite a bit of artistic licence was used. But at the end of the day I was entertained. It was what I expected would I go again no but will watch on tv and I might buy the blue ray uncut version.

I would say go enjoy a few hours of escapism, take it for what it is a bit of entertainment.

Steve

TFB Miniatures Team
 
Went to see this film yesterday with my wife. I was aware that the well trailed historically inaccurate elements would annoy me but was willing to go and hopefully enjoy the the epic scenes and storyline. After seeing it:- boring, a bad film are the main reactions. Not a stance I would have predicted. I usually enjoy Ridley Scott films, The Duellists is one of my favourite films. Parking to some extent the inaccurate elements, the film was not for me gripping, poor continuity, was Napoleon left or right handed. The sudden jumps in the time frame e.g. Russian campaign is coming to an end the it is abdication time.
I agree with the comments from Old Taff , especially the WW1 aspects in the Waterloo scene, and the The Riveteer.
Fortunately we both went on to have an excellent dinner out afterwards.
Advice - wait until it is on some streaming service.
Yours,
Douglas
 
Well, that was a strange film-going experience.....I didn't know there were trenches with Agincourt style stakes at Waterloo.(The officer shouting,"Right,lads, over the top!" just about iced that cake) There are a few sequences throughout the 2 1/2 hours that are well handled , the forming of square by British infantry being one.

Alan

The sad thing is I can't tell if you're joking or not - the comment reminded me of this gem of a sequence from Didley's Robin Hood - this is no joke, these are real shots from the film!

scott 2.jpg



scott 1.jpg



David
 
I saw an article about the filming, some of the French scenes were filmed in the UK, and what made me cringe
was the fictional Wellington meeting Napoleon on board a ship.....and of course they used HMS Victory.

I still intend to see regardless, and enjoy it for what it is.

Malc
 
OMG I had forgotten about the mediaeval Higgins boats in Robin Hood.:mad:
He's fallen off his pedestal a bit, even for me I'm afraid:(
I'm beginning to think he's doing it deliberately
 
I saw it last night and tried manfully to 'suspend my disbelief', (which is the term used to describe how we are able to accept theatre performances which our heads will tell us is plainly fake- sorry but I did stage-design at art school and we learned this stuff).
It looks utterly fabulous, regardless of uniform accuracy issues.
With apologies to our friends across the pond, I struggled with Napoleon having an American accent amongst all the other very English ones, although as SWMBO pointed out, he was a Corsican outsider, but that didn't really help for me.
I can't comment on the accuracy of the battle scenes,(apart from Waterloo) but for me they were very effective and spectacular. Ridley was clearly referencing Kurosawa and Eisenstein in places. He does achieve a real sense of the epic scale of these battles, and there's a very good depiction of British infantry manoeuvring from line into square and back into line again , and the cavalry just galloping impotently around the square. And for some reason the infantry advanced in line rather than column- where was the Old Guard?
As for Napoleon joining a cavalry charge at Waterloo...well really!
And someone was heard to shout "come on lads, over the top"- clearly ADR
Tears_of_Joy.png

On the other hand, other than the few thousand 'experts' around the world who would know, who the hell cares? Most people who bother to see it will judge it as a story, and it's not that great really. I don't think history is going to suffer because Ridley Scott made this film.
I'm glad I saw it , I didn't enjoy Phoenix's performance, for me he couldn't decide whether he was Robert Deniro, Al Pacino or Harvey Keitel. I guess he was just trying not to be Rod Steiger...
I am a massive fan of Ridley Scott and I really wanted to love this film, but sadly I loved only some of it.
 
I think I'm going to wait and get this on DVD when its out, and go and take the Mrs to see Wonka instead.
Gladiator wasn't accurate, but was an entertaining film, lets hope Gladiator 2 is as well.

Malc
 
If you wait a bit longer, Malc, they'll release a 'definitive director's cut' with another
hour and a half stitched on to it. Then there'll be even more mistakes to spot...eh?

Mike
 
If you wait a bit longer, Malc, they'll release a 'definitive director's cut' with another
hour and a half stitched on to it. Then there'll be even more mistakes to spot...eh?

Mike

Well, they do say the more the merrier...... but could I sit through 4 hours???

Malc
 
If you wait a bit longer, Malc, they'll release a 'definitive director's cut' with another
hour and a half stitched on to it. Then there'll be even more mistakes to spot...eh?

Mike

Actually, my son tells me there IS a director's cut , this is a truncated version for the sake of the awards season. Also , it's made by Apple, so will probably only be available on AppleTV when it does drop
 
I'm sure he's right....but we can bet our boots that unless the film is a flop
at the box office there will be an extended version some time in the future
when Apple have done with it. Scott Free have probably kept the appropriate
rights and will be eager to turn an extra coin.

Mike
 
Can you believe Waterloo is being released on DVD next month.
What does that indicate.

I've seen a new trailer for Gladiator 2, looks good.

Malc
 
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