New of 5th Kozara's brigade - general Ratko Mladic!

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I don't see anyone condeming Pegaso's new Vlad Dracula kit or any Genghis Khan, Attila or even Napoleon kits.Is it the distance of time?
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This is always a good question to raise in discussions such as this.....I'd always been searching for a good answer....

SerjeantWildgoose said:
The War in Bosnia? Like Martin64, I was there. Unlike him, I won't bite my tongue.
The difference between Mladic and some of the other brute horrors mentioned on here (Dracula, Ghengis Khan, Attila) is that their repulsive crimes were committed in another and more brutal age. They cannot be judged by our post-Holocaust collective morals. Mladic can and is. His portrayal and the portrayal of his kind as 'soldiers' is an insult to us all, but especially to those of us who are soldiers.
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And here it is.....passionately but perfectly put. So yes, it is the distance of time, but not JUST because it was a long time ago......we have come a long way in out global society since those days.
 
I would say that we have not progreesed at all. As I mentioned in a previous thread "Those who ignore history are bound (or doomed) to repeat it". WE CONTINUE TO REPEAT IT. Just to play devil's advocate in an interesting topic...The Nazi's were tried for their war crimes, Saddam was tried for his, the extremists in the Yugoslav war (regardless of side) were also tried. Why is it always the losing side of a conflict that is attributed the war crimes? I know this is going to be controversial but... why was Bomber Harris or the British Command in WW2 not tried for the masacre at Dresden (collateral damage???), why has Goerge Bush not been tried for the attrocities in Iraq or Afghanistan? Why have various genocides in Africa been conveniently forgotten??? On what authority did the US on behalf of NATO bomb Serbia???? If you search both the past and the present I am sure you will find 100's of examples where the "modern civility and rules of war" have been ignored. For all its worth the Hague can only assert power when it is on the winning side or when it cares.
 
I dispute that the british empire "mass murdered" people in their colonies.
Brian
 
After reading your answers...
For one people some personality is a hero, for other - enemy. Many people (modellers) build and paint German nazi and SS-men, responsible for Holocaust and war crimes against Russians and other European peoples - they are "tasteless" and "extremists"? Possibly, you know about this war by "democratic" propaganda (it usually lies) and enemy announcements.
Mario, where is a controversy? Your "heroes" are Jure and Boban, and I have nothing against it. But I have OTHER heroes...
(I think nothing bad about Croatian modellers, know some of them and have a good and friendly relations with them)
By the word, R.Mladic have award of Russian writer's union (For Slavonic and Orthodox unity) and well known in our country.
Our sales are succesfullies on some markets, so we prepare new releases. They will be some fighters from National Guard brigade "Panthers" and from 1st Russian volunteer group "Tsarist wolves", and more later - tank crew and possibly heavy artillery crew (for "Long Toms").
 
antonp said:
After reading your answers...
For one people some personality is a hero, for other - enemy. Many people (modellers) build and paint German nazi and SS-men, responsible for Holocaust and war crimes against Russians and other European peoples - they are "tasteless" and "extremists"? Possibly, you know about this war by "democratic" propaganda (it usually lies) and enemy announcements.
Mario, where is a controversy? Your "heroes" are Jure and Boban, and I have nothing against it. But I have OTHER heroes...
(I think nothing bad about Croatian modellers, know some of them and have a good and friendly relations with them)
By the word, R.Mladic have award of Russian writer's union (For Slavonic and Orthodox unity) and well known in our country.
Our sales are succesfullies on some markets, so we prepare new releases. They will be some fighters from National Guard brigade "Panthers" and from 1st Russian volunteer group "Tsarist wolves", and more later - tank crew and possibly heavy artillery crew (for "Long Toms").
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Excuse me if I say this:

"I can not eat as much as I want to puke!"
(Max Liebermann)


Cheers
 
Possibly, you know about this war by "democratic" propaganda (it usually lies) and enemy announcements.

Good for you if your sales are going well, but as one who was there and fully aware that the situation on the ground was indeed very complex, I must emphasize that according to the Geneva convention the slaughter and rape of unarmed civilians and the intentional destruction of their property is NOT called war, but genocide! Srebrenica was definitely NOT a battle, but cold-blooded planned murder!
 
But a monster is still a monster.I wasn't (as most of us here)born until after WWII but I think Hitler was one of most evil people of all time.As for people from Bosnia objecting I can fully understand that but that shouldn't stop someone from making what he wants and being kicked off the forum.
Mark
 
Hello,

as a member of the Croatian minority in Hungary I don't understand this discusion. When we started our own "Yugoslawian - war" or "Croatian patriotic war" line we never was thinking about ideology. On the market I see many Hitler and SS figures, nobody say: hey, this is a scandal. Ok, the manufacturer give here a little ideology to his product but what can I see? A good figure about a war criminal. You have the choose to buy or not buy, as some guys has writen here.
As I said I'm not a serb but I understand serbs. Mladic is a hero in Serbia, so if you are a manufacturer you can sell figures about him. For me the human he is a killer, for me the Historian a soldier from the near history, for my Serbian costumers a hero.
Now I'm very indecisive. In the future we also would like to release serbs, but now I have to be afraid from inquisition? ;)
 
How about Serbian heroes who fought the Turks?How about Skanderbeg?I know he's Albanian but he is legendary even over here.
Mark
 
Black army, thank You for your figures that they are important in our historic dioramas. Want to buy them all as I have only two (man with gun on shoulder looks like a Perkovic with Thompson)))
Unfortunatelly, don't see them in Russian shops. (Have buy by friends in Serbia)
Also, our series is not political - only historic miniatures of a colonel, a singer (former fighter) and a general-under colonel. And one gun, but SNIPER)))
Balazs, lijep pozdrav!
 
Mark, NOW we make just war in Bosnia. If I have a enormous money we will make the soldiers of some other era: wars with Ottoman empire, two Balcan wars, WWI, WWII. Perhaps, on the era of WWII not onle Serbs but also Partisans of other peoples, Croatians and Slovenians, and Russian Corps - it was very tragical, comlex and interesting time of South-European history
 
Also, our series is not political
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This figure is definitely a political statement. Not just because it depicts Mladic, but more so because you market it as a "Serb patriotic war hero" while the whole world knows who this guy really is... You have heard the responses here. Do you really think this figure would sell well? Who is going to buy it?

Mario, where is a controversy? Your "heroes" are Jure and Boban, and I have nothing against it. But I have OTHER heroes...
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No they are not. I don't think anyone in their right mind could think of any of those people as heroes... Every nation has some "bad seeds", it is just a matter of accepting the truth or turning your head the other way.

Again, I have no problems with figures depicting soldiers from any nation in the conflict... Croatian, Bosnian, Serb... In fact I think many people modeling vehicles would love to get figures they can put next to their colorful T-55s. Ordinary soldiers doing ordinary things. Not Mladic pointing a way to Srebrenica.

Mario
 
jcichon said:
Whats the difference between this figure and Andrea's Hitler or Goerring?
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People do object to figures of both of those subjects on the occasions they appear (q.v. prior threads) and there are definitely parallels to be drawn.

Personally I don't see the market for senior nazis either because to me they seem to memorialise, or even commemorate, the individuals, however the events that relate to them are two or three generations back, and that makes some difference.


marco55 said:
I don't see anyone condeming Pegaso's new Vlad Dracula kit or any Genghis Khan, Attila or even Napoleon kits.Is it the distance of time?
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The perpetrators of past, let's call them excesses, in warfare are regularly brought up in discussion of the apparent glorification of the SS in the hobby for example, but I think when you go back too far it clearly makes the case that time does make a difference - completely different eras, different laws, different moral standards etc.

Einion
 
To say that seeing Mladic as a heroe is just another non-western view, reminds me of the story where a ghost driver was arrested and instead of accepting the fact he made a mistake he complained that all the other cars were the real ghost drivers, and he himself the only one doing it right...

I doubt that all Serbs see Mladic as a heroe by the way. There are probably plenty that are ashamed of him, just as most, if not all, Germans today feel shame for nazi atrocities.

Anyway, this is getting massively off-topic and in fact giving lots of publicity to this not so briliant new figure release. Why not all get back to the brushes (and finish painting that SS guy, hahaha)?

Adrian
 
Couldn't agree more - Let's lighten the mood on a very heavy topic...I will get back to painting Darth Vader and the Emperor (Palpatine) from Star Wars - we all know what he did to Alderaan!!! Can science fiction figures be controversial ?????
 
What has to be modeled figures, such as Mladic, Hitler, Himmler, etc.?

What did those criminals of history that they must honor our hobby?
Pity about the talent of the modeller and the material for this part.

best regards

Hendryk
 
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