New Release - Hussar Lifting His Child
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old grumbler
Active Member
- Joined
- Sep 7, 2004
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If this had been produced around 1988 it would have been regarded as state of the art but as it appears now it is out of proportion, the weightless child is a problem, overall it's unconvincing and surprisingly appears somewhat anatomically naive. It's not about 'pleasing everybody' (although Alan manages this feat with pretty much every figure he does) The thing is get the proportions, weight, balance, musculature right first, then add detail, no amount of detail can cover up bad anatomy, sorry, if that pisses people off then what the hell. Before anyone jumps on me I've done crap work, and good work, the thing is to learn from every figure you do so the next is better. Sorry this one is a step back.
old grumbler
Active Member
- Joined
- Sep 7, 2004
- Messages
- 125
It wasn't meant to be taken like that so stop being snarky and sarcastic, my work is better than that for the record - much better but it isn't about my work so don't start trying to make this some kind of slanging match. If you can't see the logic in what I posted then you're not really into learning about sculpting and anatomy so kindly butt out I guess.
Einion
Well-Known Member
Well said. Even if your work were not better it would not automatically invalidate what you said, which tends to be the implication with that kind challenge.
And not to point out the blindingly obvious, there's no requirement to be able to do better to leave a critique.
Einion
taffjones
Active Member
Well I'd buy the miniature so I feel that the sculptor has done his job well if somebody is willing to buy it. If people are that critical about then sculpt then please feel free to try and make a better one.
megroot
A Fixture
I think it is time to lock this threat. It is gonna go out of control.
It's a shame that the introduction of a figure end with trowing mudd to eachother.
If I remember well: old grumbler whas in the past also somebody who loves trowing with mudd.
marc
It's a shame that the introduction of a figure end with trowing mudd to eachother.
If I remember well: old grumbler whas in the past also somebody who loves trowing with mudd.
marc
Einion
Well-Known Member
And you just did too Marc!
The problem is not with the critical commentary on the figure, it is with the reception it received. It's far too common here that negative comments are met with snide remarks or hostility. It's not like people who don't like something would be allowed to get away with criticising those who do.
Einion
Gaudin
A Fixture
I don't know - I always try to say something that is useful to the sculptor (first and foremost)- feedback that they can use to improve if they choose to. Being a sculptor, this is what I will ask for myself.
It must be extremely unfortunate photographs that give an impression of figure being disproportionate - as I can see all what old grumbler suggested - there is obvious dissonance to the figure in these particular pictures. If in real life figure is fine ( and Alan isn't exactly a newbie that you could expect to make mistakes of that calibre, but even masters tend to produce sloppy figures now and again and we shall not name them here) then it photography that is letting the figure down.
Poor photography cant discount the fact the pose is quite static (not necessarily incorrect but bio-mechanically it doesn't quite seem natural ) and unfortunately an opportunity to create a dynamic "winning" snapshot of 2 figures in motion was missed on this occasion.
It is true that you can capture any moment (even with child balancing on man's index finger if you must - even if it can only last a millisecond in real life ) but from artistic point of view its the dynamism I would like to see here. The reference picture has this feel, created only by subtle tilts, I suppose here lies the genius of the artist. The sculpture on the other hand looks robotic.
It does have beautiful intricate details that I envy, but unfortunately its somewhat dampened by uneasy "first impression". It would be a win with some changes
It must be extremely unfortunate photographs that give an impression of figure being disproportionate - as I can see all what old grumbler suggested - there is obvious dissonance to the figure in these particular pictures. If in real life figure is fine ( and Alan isn't exactly a newbie that you could expect to make mistakes of that calibre, but even masters tend to produce sloppy figures now and again and we shall not name them here) then it photography that is letting the figure down.
Poor photography cant discount the fact the pose is quite static (not necessarily incorrect but bio-mechanically it doesn't quite seem natural ) and unfortunately an opportunity to create a dynamic "winning" snapshot of 2 figures in motion was missed on this occasion.
It is true that you can capture any moment (even with child balancing on man's index finger if you must - even if it can only last a millisecond in real life ) but from artistic point of view its the dynamism I would like to see here. The reference picture has this feel, created only by subtle tilts, I suppose here lies the genius of the artist. The sculpture on the other hand looks robotic.
It does have beautiful intricate details that I envy, but unfortunately its somewhat dampened by uneasy "first impression". It would be a win with some changes
megroot
A Fixture
If somebody find that: I apoligize.......That whas not my intention.
It is also a fault of the writer.....you must choose your words carefully, and be more polite.
In my opinion, if you say that your work is better.......prove it to show it, when you are hide under a avatar with no real name or state or what soever it is so anonymous that we must guess what the person has produced in the past. And at last (and my contribution end with this) give some argument's and say how it can be done better. Not only negative critism.
And sometimes I wish my English whas much better....
Marc
old grumbler
Active Member
- Joined
- Sep 7, 2004
- Messages
- 125
This thread has just gone childish and sunk into mud slinging and sarcasm. So no one now can express or give a well intentioned critique anymore? Strikes me it's not worth having a forum. Just have new release announcements and fawning sycophantic posts. How do we learn then?
taffjones
Active Member
Well said Marc.
Gaudin
A Fixture
May be its time that this forum agreed on some basic rules how to give feedback that is useful and try to stick to it? And people can accept it if they find it useful?
Giving feedback that is constructive is a skill that can be learnt, too often people slip into negative, personal and sometimes nasty remarks (let me be clear, I dont think Grumbler's responses fall into this category). Taking feedback is also a skill, and not accepting it is also an option.
In the end of the day all of us are here for a positive experience and not in for hours of adrenaline fuelled disdain or feeling insecure/undermined/not listened to/challenged or whatever.
There is a useful model for positive feedback from NLP that we could look into if people are willing.
Giving feedback that is constructive is a skill that can be learnt, too often people slip into negative, personal and sometimes nasty remarks (let me be clear, I dont think Grumbler's responses fall into this category). Taking feedback is also a skill, and not accepting it is also an option.
In the end of the day all of us are here for a positive experience and not in for hours of adrenaline fuelled disdain or feeling insecure/undermined/not listened to/challenged or whatever.
There is a useful model for positive feedback from NLP that we could look into if people are willing.
Some things never change apparently, I leave my final word on this to a wiser man than me
Criticism comes easier than craftsmanship.
Zeuxis ~400 BC
Criticism comes easier than craftsmanship.
Zeuxis ~400 BC
M
Mark S
Guest
That's pretty rich coming from a bloke who is supposed to have laughed himself to death after viewing one of his own paintings.
Richie
A Fixture
Hi Paul,
Something a little different for the Napoleonic enthusiast. I really like the concept of the piece from the original drawing and has lots of fine detail to challenge the painter. This one seems to have divided the camp like the Napoleonic conflict itself.
While I like the idea, I can also see were the critique comes from, from more experienced modellers/painters and sculptors than me. I have just looked at some of Alan's work to familiarize myself. (I have put up a couple of examples)
This one does seem a lot less dynamic than some of Alan's previous work and has in my opinion missed the appeal from the painting of that joy and love captured in a moment between father and daughter. As stated previously it is just those subtle placements, tilts and bends that is missing from this particular piece. I don't know if stoic or stiff is too hard a phrase, but when you compare it to previous work it does not have that fluidity.
Anyway I hope it proves popular.
cheers
Richie
Something a little different for the Napoleonic enthusiast. I really like the concept of the piece from the original drawing and has lots of fine detail to challenge the painter. This one seems to have divided the camp like the Napoleonic conflict itself.
While I like the idea, I can also see were the critique comes from, from more experienced modellers/painters and sculptors than me. I have just looked at some of Alan's work to familiarize myself. (I have put up a couple of examples)
This one does seem a lot less dynamic than some of Alan's previous work and has in my opinion missed the appeal from the painting of that joy and love captured in a moment between father and daughter. As stated previously it is just those subtle placements, tilts and bends that is missing from this particular piece. I don't know if stoic or stiff is too hard a phrase, but when you compare it to previous work it does not have that fluidity.
Anyway I hope it proves popular.
cheers
Richie
Blind Pew
A Fixture
Well as one of those who are chiefly responsible for slagging this one off. I'll weigh in again.
The intention's not to 'have a go' or even claim I can do better.
It's just that Alan Ball is a bloke whom I'd consider to be amongst the best and most consistent sculptors around. so much so, I can often pick out one of his pieces. His North American Indian stuff is superb, with flair, skill, and a superb touch. From dynamic stuff like the photo above, to quiet, contemplative pieces. All beautifully sculpted.
But I'm sorry, this one just doesn't look right.
If you stick stuff on here, be prepared to take any flack, which is generally well meaning. It was in my case. I've found 99% of people on here really nice, well-intentioned people.
The intention's not to 'have a go' or even claim I can do better.
It's just that Alan Ball is a bloke whom I'd consider to be amongst the best and most consistent sculptors around. so much so, I can often pick out one of his pieces. His North American Indian stuff is superb, with flair, skill, and a superb touch. From dynamic stuff like the photo above, to quiet, contemplative pieces. All beautifully sculpted.
But I'm sorry, this one just doesn't look right.
If you stick stuff on here, be prepared to take any flack, which is generally well meaning. It was in my case. I've found 99% of people on here really nice, well-intentioned people.
And not to point out the blindingly obvious, there's no requirement to be able to do better to leave a critique.
Einion[/quote]
Surely you would have to be able to do better to know what's wrong?
And to be able to give advice on what, and if any, remedial work needs to be done.
Carl.
Einion[/quote]
Surely you would have to be able to do better to know what's wrong?
And to be able to give advice on what, and if any, remedial work needs to be done.
Carl.
M
Mark S
Guest
And that is blindingly obvious IMO...If not there'd be very little discussion on this forum apart from gratuitous praise...Your average figure painter may do little sculpting themselves, and yet discerns from the many figures available on the market, which they will choose to paint.
As part of that process they consider many aspects including subject matter ,the proportions of the figure, the pose and attitude of the figure and the way it's been sculpted. If everyone who gave a critique on sculpting could do better themselves that would pretty much see the end of commercial figure sculpting and this hobby altogether. The bottom would fall out of the market and we'd all be doing our own.
For instance, it may surprise some here that I can't sing like the much acclaimed and ferret like Barry Manilow, but even though, as hard as I try, I'm unable to pump out an acceptable rendition of "Copacabana" I can still say with chest expanding confidence that he sings SHITE songs!
