Opinions About Websites Presenting Prices Without Vat

[Blue Thunder]

Gentlemen, I know this can get somehow controversial, but I would like to know if I am alone in the World or if there are others thinking like me.

It's this: Some sites, mainly some Spanish sites, present the price of their products WITHOUT the addition of the VAT. You add to the cart this, you add to the cart that ... you finally picked what you want, you pick "checkup" , you state where you live and then ....... the VAT appears raising the price of your order 21%.


Sites I am complaining of this practice are http://www.knightmodels.com/ http://www.andrea-miniatures.com/ and the newcomer http://www.hvminiatures.com.


I don't want to be misunderstood. But I personally dislike so much, but really so much this practice that in the past, with these three companies, I lost the interest in placing my orders when I saw ... at the very last end, costs I was not expecting at all.


It is hard but quite hard to pass the message correctly through the screen but please note: While these three companies are all Spanish, other Spanish companies like Carmina Hobbies list their prices with the VAT included: What you see is what you pay. On the other hand, I find quite annoying to purchase from sites where what I see is a fraction of what I will pay.


This practice may capture the attention of customers outside EC, who pay the price excluding the VAT, but for us all, inside the EC, I think the other way round. What I want to see at the very first beginning is the final price I pay.


And the shipping charges are also a bit on the heavy side. I won't use the vocabulary "outrageous" ...but it doesn't help the cause either. Specially when other companies charge less for the same ... shipping.


If this gets hard to transmit, please simulate purchases to better understand my feelings in this matter. Take as example Knight Models Iron Man Bust. The listed price is €33. When we place it in the cart it jumps to about €40, with shipping charges it flies to the €50 mark!!!


I sincerely hope I won't be misunderstood, because these situations clearly frustrates me. So many sites from so many countries around that work "plain vanilla": What you see is what you take, but these three operate differently. As HV is so recent I sincerely hope they can hear too the voice of the customer to better drive their business.


I would like the most to hear your opinions my friends. I don't know if I am alone, but even if I am alone I would like to publicly ask to the brands I mentioned, if they are reading this, please present only the final prices in their websites.


Best regards!

 

[Tecumsea]

I agree with you to some extent but once you realise what is happening then that is the price, when you next look at the site you will mentally add 20% to the marked price and then make a decision. I'm not sure that it is an intention to mislead-on the subject of Postal charges they are rising everywhere and for me have often killed a prospective purchase, not the retailers fault just a factor of rising fuel prices. I sell a few items on Ebay from time to time and get criticised for postage charges because I send everything insured and signed for, this way I have never lost a parcel or had anything damaged. I'm sure those who use the private feedback area, the one that I don't see would be the first to bleat if something when missing or was damaged.
When buying I always check the actual carriage charges against what I paid in most cases overcharges are refunded.
Keith

 

[Babelfish]

That's why I now do most (although still not all) of my modelling "shopping" at shows these days: Firstly it cuts out the cost of postage, and secondly there are usually significant bargains to be had ("show specials", discounts for buying more than 1 model and/or paying in cash etc.).

- Steve

 

[bagelman1952]

I totally agree with the original poster about displaying charges on websites. Also because I live in the Dominican Republic where there is no proper postal service I have arranged a business mail address in Miami and purchase most things from the states. Not being American I do not have knowledge of the local state taxing system and frequently find a huge chunk of tax money added to my purchase depending on which state the seller lives in. All very confusing for a poor Brit.

 

[Blue Thunder]

My friends, thank you for your most valuable contributions!


I would like only to clarify something. These damn screens filter almost everything we think from what appears later on on the screen!

I agree with you to some extent but once you realise what is happening then that is the price, when you next look at the site you will mentally add 20% to the marked price and then make a decision. I'm not sure that it is an intention to mislead-on the subject of Postal charges they are rising everywhere and for me have often killed a prospective purchase, not the retailers fault just a factor of rising fuel prices. I sell a few items on Ebay from time to time and get criticised for postage charges because I send everything insured and signed for, this way I have never lost a parcel or had anything damaged. I'm sure those who use the private feedback area, the one that I don't see would be the first to bleat if something when missing or was damaged.
When buying I always check the actual carriage charges against what I paid in most cases overcharges are refunded.
Keith

You see Keith, the problem is not making the sum. Even if it is annoying "now how much is 20% of 37,5?!? And if I'll add also this guy here costing 23,99?!?". The issue is that the definitive price is, allow me to say like this "hidden" for the customer. It only appears if and only if you click "checkout".


I wonder, but I really wonder why they follow this strategy. I do not know the laws of all countries, but in several this practice is strictly forbidden: Expliciting a price like this "37,7 plus VAT" or "37,7 VAT not included". But, allow me to say, the problem is not laws, the issue here is simply sense:
Good news approach customers, bad news put them away. The asymmetry of the human behaviour facing good news, like a loyalty discount, or bad news, like an extra tax to pay is completely different. Jadar Models in Poland and Modelbau Koenig in Germany are samples of shops where loyalty discounts appear once you hit checkout. And these are fine news to receive and to keep purchasing


I sincerely hope, I could transmit this clearly. On the internet things get misunderstood easily, therefore I hope I could clarify my complain.


Regarding shipping charges, I was referring another situation that annoys me the most: The same item, from the same country to the same country using the same expedition method ... and as you guess ... different prices! If it was one euro or two I could say ... "heck perhaps they're placing a nice cardobox". But unfortunately differences are not so short.


Well, I mentioned my sincere disappointment regarding the Knight Models Iron Man. When it was released it appealed high to me. When I was at Knight Models website I was confronted with a final price of around €50. And I said clearly to myself: "NO! No one modifies something from 33 to 50 and wins." I already found the bust in another place. Money apart, what stays is the bad experience that I had and that was the reason for hearing other voices.


Many thanks for your time and for sharing your experiences as a seller as well!

 

[Mirofsoft]

For HV I checked Sherlock is at 39.95€ with vat
If you check out you have 33.32 + vat
Try wtih USA destiantin and you wil see VAT is 0% because they have no VAT but import taxes and local taxes

I would like to see, perhaps, clearly noted
Or : include VAT 21%
Or : VAT not include, add according to your local legislation.
Best

 

[JonP]

I don't think anybody is trying to mislead anybody here and there may be genuine reasons to do it. There are quite a few other European manufacturers, Pegaso for one, who's web prices do not include VAT so it may be that the UK is the exception in nearly always showing retail prices including VAT. (Most wholesale prices in the UK when dealing business to business do not include VAT.) So there may be a cultural difference in the way we expect things to be priced. Also if the VAT is added after the purchase then it is a lot easier to recalculate the price if the VAT rate changes. You may have noticed how little the cost of items changed here in the UK when he VAT was reduced a few years ago as most companies kept the retail prices the same .
I think as a rule of thumb when dealing with EU suppliers you should assume that no VAT is included in the price on the website.

Just a few thoughts.

 

[Pepperpot]

I think that within the EU, sellers have to tax you with the VAT, outside of the EU you have to clear VAT with your customs yourself. So, depending on the country they are selling to, the price changes.

 

[Ron Tamburrini]

Well in the UK unless you are buying from a wholesale outfit IE Trade the prices will always be marked without the vat added.
Retail here is vat included if they are charging plus Vat then there should be a vat number and invoice number .

Re postage well we do seem to be getting screwed here I just made an order up for someone today and on checking the postage it is almost a third of the value of the goods ,then if one is payed via paypal they take there little slice of the pie also and then make you wait 21 days to release the cash unless your customer is good enough to email a release chitty to them.

We are living in an ever increasing mail order society and the rapists are having a field day ,I know the post office has big plans on how to relieve
us of more cash and as Keith says if you want to insure and track items you can easily add an other £6 on to the postage on top of the original costs.

Ron